Intimate Healing with Kevin Martin

Britt East [00:00:02] Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast where we inspire growth, beat down biases and get into all sorts of good trouble with your host, Britt East. No topic is off limits as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. So get ready to join us for some courageous conversation, because not going quietly starts right now. Hey everyone!

Britt East [00:00:31] Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast for outraged optimists and heartbroken healers all over the world, where we surface life's searing truths in the name of radical togetherness. I'm your host, Britt East, and I have a fantabulous featured guest today, so let's get into it.

Britt East [00:00:50] Kevin Martin is a passionate mindset coach dedicated to supporting spiritual gay men through sexual and relational empowerment. Growing up on a family farm in Campbellsville, Ohio, Kevin was inspired by his grandfather and found joy in activities like riding roller coasters at Cedar Point. Raised in a conservative Lutheran church, Kevin faced challenges in accepting his sexuality, which fueled his journey towards self-love. Now, he offers individual coaching and courses such as Celebrity Celebrating Sexuality, aiming to help others release sexual and relational anxiety and embrace their true selves. Kevin, it's so great to meet you. Thanks for joining us today. How the hell are you?

Kevin Martin [00:01:32] I'm doing great. I'm so excited and so grateful. Yeah. Just thank you for for having me. I'm, just absolutely honored to be here to connect and just just to chat. I, I am honored to be here just on this planet in general. But to hold this space with you is really amazing. So thank you for this opportunity. Yeah.

Britt East [00:01:52] My pleasure. I'm so excited to chat with you today. So let's just dive right in. Because there's, you know, so much I, I've been looking forward to chatting with you. Why do you think? And I'm going to kind of start with the supposition that we're kind of on the same page here, because I just bet we are. But why do you think gay sex in particular is in intrinsically healing activity for our bodies, our minds, our souls, ourselves, our society as a whole?

Kevin Martin [00:02:21] Yeah, that's that's such a good question. And it it it truly is like I've been doing some, some, some deep, like coaching work myself as a client and working with my business coach as I go over the past, this, this past summer. And as we've been navigating through, you know, what that what that kind of looks like. Like how I want to integrate myself more fully in the work that I do. My my coach Tamara, throughout. Like, I'll start her out anywhere I go. I just feel like I'm in Angeles for her. She's absolutely amazing. But she she came up with this, this slogan of, like, gay sex saves lives. And like, when when she said that, I was like, holy shit like that. Just kind of like, I just, like, blew my mind wide open. But. And then I started thinking about it further and further. I was like, you know what? She is absolutely right. And then just by the beauty of the universe within, like the next week, I was in a session with the client and, we were talking about all the progress that he's made over the past, past couple of years that we've we've been working together. And he arrived at this really beautiful and pivotal point where he kind of took a step back and realized, like, he was able to notice all of his growth along the way, but also recognized that. If if he hadn't had done this work for himself when it comes to, you know, accepting his own, not only accepting, but like welcoming, embracing his own sexuality and how that shows up within his own body and his relationship, his partnership, his marriage. Then like, he could very clearly see like a line to suicide. And for him it was like a direct path. And like in that moment, it just kind of struck me about the magnitude of, of this work. So, you know, pairing that, like, with, with with what Tamara said, it was like, Holy cow, like this. Yeah. On the surface, we might be talking about about sex, and that can look like hookups or masturbating or, you know, intimate time with our partner, just even intimate time with our own self. But. What is that deeper message that's happening in that deeper message is like, I have an ability and a permission and a value here to exist. And like there there isn't anything that is inherently wrong with me. Like I am allowed to be who I am and I'm allowed to respect my body in in a way that allows me to feel pleasure. And that also allows me to connect back to myself and connect to the world around me. And so, you know, in this, in this path, like when we when we talk about about sex, like, yes, sometimes it can be surface level of, you know, like in the moment, you know, how were we feeling their, you know, the anxieties, the worries, the concerns. But it's so much deeper than that. Like, how are you feeling as a human. Like how, how, how are you feeling in like your, your own navigation of of what it means to, to to to be here like. And this is why it's so powerful is that it, it holds the capacity to be to be all of it like it can be. In the moment, and it can also be incredibly deep, and it can be a symbol or a stand in for our insecurities, the things that we're working toward, the biggest accomplishments that we have, that we have had. So it's it's it's it's powerful. And like, I think that's one thing I really just want to communicate, like, right across the board is that. Yeah. You know, even like if somebody interacts with my work or they see they see it online or they see on social media, like, yes, it's front facing in the sense that it's, it's it's it's very, very hypersexual. But it's a channel to help our community connect with themselves individually further and with with each other.

Britt East [00:06:39] Yeah. You know, I love that. I, I guess one of my current pet peeves and I've been talking about this quite a bit on on the show, is the homogenization of our culture and the respectability politics that maybe was an unintended consequence of marriage equality, where so many of us view coming out as a singular event and wonder why we're not happy as as queer people, as gay people, whomever we wonder, we think like, oh, I just made a disclosure to some family and loved ones once, and now why don't I feel like I quite fit in? And my theory. And I'm hoping you can help tease this apart, is that for so many of us, we live our lives in silos. And of course, at the top of the list is all of the sexual impulses, feelings, urges, desires that we either leave unexplored, disconnected, unexpressed, unshared, unfulfilled, with ourselves, much less with another person, much less just talked about and bantered about among friends and loved ones. And so there's all of these, these closeted behaviors and modes of expression and ways of being that we are carrying with us like a sack of rocks on our back. And then we think to ourselves, I wonder why I'm not happy. So to me, sex is like the tip of that spear, you know, clumsy metaphor there. But I mean, it's like there's nothing more potent and scary to talk about and disclose than our fetishes are. Fantasies or desires are frequencies, you know? So how do we how do we start doing that? How do we start developing our own culture as gay men, as queer people, however we identify independent of anything that we're consuming in this kind of sanitized mass media world, the saturated, heteronormative world, how do we start to stand on our own and create our own sexual culture?

Kevin Martin [00:08:42] Oh. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Yeah. You hit on such great points there. And yeah. You know when we think of, of like times of like initial coming out or even like coming out throughout the lifespan. Like it when that happens it, it feels like, such as, such a snapshot of time. Like it's, it's like, you know, it feels very static, like this is, this is who I am, and I'm not allowed to change. And. It makes sense that it has that feeling and that impression. But then that's also completely different from how humans are and how we operate as humans, where we are growing and evolving and changing every single moment of every single day. And so, you know, there there might have been that snapshot in time where we might have have felt that, you know, to to, you know, for me to identify as this in this moment looks like this, but then literally the next five minutes after that, that could be totally different. And, and, you know, so I think, like when we can cultivate that permission within ourself and within our, our communities and even starting within our, our friend groups, within the people that we, we have sex with, within our partnerships, within the people that we hook up with, you know, this, this sense of permission of like, you know, whatever you are feeling right here, right now, let's go for it. And I and I love it and I celebrate that, you know, not only for you but for myself. And so, you know, like, like, I really like using I love language, like, languages is super fun. And and here, like, I love using the words like celebrate, permission and I cultivate, because it, it just, it sends this message of like, there is no right or wrong, but rather like, let's explore and and see what that looks like in this mindful moment that that we are in, knowing that the wind may blow and tomorrow we may feel totally different, or we might feel the exact same for the next 40 years. And who is to say any of that is correct or incorrect? Like, like nobody can because it's it's as long as it's a reflection of how we're feeling at this point in time. And that's, that's what's what's most important. And so, you know, like kind of on, on a cultural level, like how how can we do that? I, you know, with with each of us taking. It's it's hard, but I often think that it does start small, like it starts just small with our, our own individual actions. And you know, when, like, if I'm going to hook up with somebody, you know, asking them in the moment what feels good to you right now, what would you like to do right now? You know, maybe we have chatted and we talked about something totally different, but in the moment, maybe we're both super anxious and, you know, we don't even want to do anything, or we just want to relax or chill or watch some TV and then maybe, maybe we'll check back in a little bit later. Or maybe we said things were off limits beforehand, but then when we're in the moment, we're feeling pretty good. And, you know, we we mutually give consent and change our minds. You know, it's like it's I think like when we start there, like in these individual experiences, with the people that we interact with, with our own interactions and even just our own time by yourself, like, that's where we start to lay the foundation in the mold. And then that becomes the new kind of the new standard for ourself or the new norm. So then the next time that we have a new partner or the next person that we interact with, or maybe the person that the person we hooked up with when they interact with somebody else, like it starts to wear out from there. And then like we can start to build through just through experience, you know, this, this new perspective of, you know, yeah, let's. Let's celebrate the moment for for what it is as a honoring of not only like our own, like self respect, but the the connection that we feel right here in this, in this individual space.

Britt East [00:13:03] Yeah. You know, something you said sparked in me, I think like what you are alluding to requires maybe a prerequisite to that is, is more integration bringing the sexual components of our lives in alignment into the light with other facets of our life, maybe even every facet of our life. So, like you're saying, if we're hooking up with a stranger, maybe we celebrate that fact rather than feel ashamed about it. And what would that mean? And what would that look like? How where where is how could we express celebration in the moment? That's that's fun and life affirming as opposed to, you know, furtive secret acts, which can be fun and life affirming, too. But, you know, whatever that means to us, that is our art that we practice. But it requires that integration so that there's love in every moment. There's love in the room, even if it's a, a stranger or a random person or group of people, there's we're still bringing love with us. It's not we're not divorced from those sets, those sides of a person. You know, when it's a when it's a potboiler or a pressure cooker. And we've we segmented off. We've cut off sex from the rest of our lives. And it can only be expressed in this hour. And if I missed this hour, then I'm totally screwed. It creates a sense of urgency that derails that connection, which requires time. What I loved about your scenario that you kind of whimsically painted was that not only was it kind of about continuous consent and being in the moment and being alive to the experience and a certain amount of tender shared, space, but it required us to be open hearted. And so I think, like figuring out ways to unite our tender heart with, the full strength and force of sexual feeling is is, ultimately what is required. And like you said, it starts small with our daily decisions. Instead of thinking, like, writ large about the culture, that's that's too much. But if we start small, like, how am I going to treat this hookup? How am I going to treat my partner or my partners in this moment? How am I going to bring love in the room, even if we're enacting a sadomasochistic ritual fantasy, you know, how am I going to integrate more of myself? And then before, during and after, there's an arc to our journey where we talk about it. We dwell on it, euphoric with that whole palette.

Kevin Martin [00:15:36] Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. You hit it directly on the head and like, you know and for me like a. It boils down to, you know, like. Yeah. Recognizing any shame when it may, when it may be be coming into play and and. What I what I love to approach, you know, and how I love to this with clients is, you know, like, approaching that shame from a loving standpoint of its own, where it's something that we are trying to necessarily fully get rid of or like destroy or, you know, we don't want to shame, shame itself, in a meta way, because that will only exacerbate it further. But, you know, how can we ask of like, okay, what can this teach us? What can we learn from it? How can we soften it? And also, how can we start to take the power back from it to, you know, always up to take a look at ways of like, how can we work with where we already are? Whether we are, you know, anxious, nervous, afraid, you know, whatever that that may be like. Let's work with it, and see what, what this emotion or this experience is communicating to us that we can then pinpoint as to a need that we may have or, a deep lying fear or insecurity or something that we are, that we're looking for, you know, so on that shame piece, like, I'd love to just hold that with, with a bit of tenderness. And and then to, you know, like. The like that the concepts of, you know, giving ourself just the permission to to be however that is in this moment from this lens of like however that is, is is completely okay like there and I feel like a broken record because I say this all the time and I feel like my clients are probably like super enjoying with me by this point. But like I tell them just again and again, I think there really is no right or wrong here. Whether it's how we're doing relationships or how we're doing sex, like it's completely okay to be horny 24 over seven or to not want to have sex at all like it's okay to walk around, and like, you know, to not wear any clothes, to be super comfortable in your body. And it's also okay if that's not comfortable for you, if you're more comfortable being more closed, like it's okay if you love hookups, it's okay if you hate hookups, like it's okay if you and your partners have sex all the time, it's okay if you haven't had sex in the past two decades like there is. There is no magic formula. And there is no rubric. There's no rulebook that we have to abide by, but that the closest of a magic formula that we can find is super simple. When we can just turn inside and just say, like, what's what's what's true to me right now. And how can I how can I honor that? You know, and shame does complicate this, because shame will try to wiggle its way in and say, you know, it will. It will start to direct us toward what it believes is okay and not okay. And so we do always have to address that, that shame piece. Yep. The the magic of addressing shame is, we know that literally, just by speaking it out and giving it space, it automatically subsides. And so even if we don't have to arrive at a certain outcome with shame, just speaking it out of like, oh, yeah, I feel really shamed when I, when I do have sex, or I feel ashamed because of the way that I was raised or what I grew up with or where I come from. And it's like, okay, that makes sense. But just the speaking of that has already given it so much light that it's not as pressurized. And so I love that you bring up that that pressurizing point too, because, you know, any time that we can alleviate as much pressure from ourself as possible and from our, our circumstances, our our interactions, our experiences, our hookups, like the more love we automatically infuse into that and the more connected that we feel to ourselves and to to the people involved. And so, you know, I love to just normalize, you know, with, with, with clients and when, when this happens, you know, in my own experiences, you know, if, if it gets messy or if one of us farts or if, like, nobody can get off or if we're super tired or, you know, like, no matter what the experience is, you know, yeah, we just allow it, allow it to be and and give that space and, and you know, taking, taking that, that, that pressure off any certain outcome or goal or objective where, you know, we're just here because we really care about each other and we care about ourselves. And this is. This is how we want to connect with each other in this moment. Like, that type of a reframe and. And approach can. Quite quickly, you know, undo a lot of that shame itself to, because a lot of those shame messages tend if you know, I can I could be based in a lot of ways that we grew up. But then inter within the, within our own community, it's, it's a lot of it's based on performance or looks or things like that. And when, when we can remove that pressure by giving ourself permission to be just exactly who we are. Then. A lot of that. A lot of that drifts away. And it's really it's really, really powerful.

Britt East [00:21:25] Yeah. You just scribing is like indirect procedures. You know, when you're looking at an issue or an opportunity, you can look at a you can act directly or indirectly. And sometimes the fastest way to address something is indirectly, like you're saying in a lot of cases by having all this great fun. The unintended consequence can be a reduction in shame. But what you said that really got me going. Based on my own life and the way that I, my own personality, the way I move through the world, is that, not to shame. Shame because, you know, I'm the kind of personality. It's really intense. I want to get an A, I want to win. I want to be the best. And so it's like, I don't want to shame. I don't like it. It doesn't make me feel good. I want it to go away. I want to I want to eradicate shame. But what you're describing is more about being with my tender heart in all its imperfections, accepting the intrinsic messiness of the human experience and just being with it rather than labeling necessarily, rather than fixing rather than tweaking rather than addressing. It's like, let's start by really being with one another, even if only for a moment. Even if you are a stranger, there can still be love in the room. Like you said, we've we were making a choice to connect in this way, in this moment. And let's sit in the fullness of that moment and celebrate that. And a lot of this stuff is just going to dissipate. So tell me how you've alluded to some of your client services. What kind of, people come to work with you? What kind of clients do you have? How do you get started with them?

Kevin Martin [00:23:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I am just so grateful to, to be able to do this work and, and a lot of the I, I have clients all all across the age spectrum, the gender spectrum, the sexual orientation spectrum. Yeah, I am I. I think. One of the one of the things that kind of draws people to me is, like their own, like depth of vulnerability and like authenticity that I bring, where? I I'm I'm somebody I cannot like bullshit anybody to save my life. And so like, growing up, like playing cards where we had to lie like, I was always terrible at it. Like everybody could always tell. Like, if we're playing poker or boys or something, they're like, okay. Yeah. Kevin's lying. I just, like, wear my heart on my sleeve. But that's what draws a lot of people to me. And that's how we connect really well. And and so, like my. In getting started and working with clients like it often. More often than not like tends to be a a bit of a relationship building process in the start where we might, you know, we might get connected at a networking event or we may interact on social media, you know, they might start calling me, I'll send them a message. You know, just check in like, hey, how are you? Like, it's not it's not salesy, but I'm just trying to build a connection, you know, and let them know this is what I do. Here's how I how we support. But then we'll we'll we'll we'll respond to each other stories and just build, build that human interaction. And then over time, you know, if, if that may fall into a space of, hey, I think you could help support me in this way. And I'm like, okay, great, let's do it. So I think for me, like, I, knowing that this work is human centered and person first, that's always a number one driver for me is, you know, what is the relationship that that that rehab that I have with, with, with this client, where I always, always want clients to feel as, as safe and comfortable and empowered as possible because when they can, that's when they can genuinely open up. That's when they can talk about the things that they've been withholding for decades and, you know, really start to do that, that, that deep work. And so I'm very, like, compassionately gentle in my approach, but I'll nudge when, when it's needed. But taking my time and kind of building that foundation, tends to be really helpful. And this is, you know, like, I'll never turn anybody away. I work with anybody and everyone again, you know, all ages and genders and sexual orientations, all races, everybody. And also, knowing that our specific gay community has a lot of needs that are being that aren't being met or that are being under addressed. You know, I like to provide this channel as well to help address some of those very specific, very specific needs that again, relate only or particularly to, you know, gay men within, the gay community. And so, so, yeah, a lot of the clients that because of that, that approach that I take, it tends to land with them, with them really well. So I tend to work with a lot of people who are very heart, heart centered or heart driven. A lot of a lot of folks from, you know, religious backgrounds or, you know, conservative backgrounds or, you know, align with some form of spirituality, have an internal belief in, like, the power of human connection. And so, so we kind of that just, like, naturally gravitate toward, toward each other. Right along with that, too. You know, in the, you know, it's a therapeutic coaching perspective that I hold. You know, it's like my role is never to change anyone. And so, you know, I'm simply there, like, holding a roadmap based on what they told me they want to, to, to, to to take a look at or work toward. And I'm just guiding the car along the way. But they're doing like, all the driving. And so I'll also have clients who to, you know, we'll interact with and we'll have totally different perspectives or come from, completely different angles. And we do incredible work together there, too, because we're able to hold that space for each other. And that's also super helpful to them and what they're what they're working toward. And this is, you know, I just say I'm just so grateful for this work, just to be able to to talk with people and, and help them through whatever is on their mind is, it's it's the greatest gift.

Britt East [00:28:20] So what do sessions with you look like? Like, you know, if somebody signs up with you, what can they expect?

Kevin Martin [00:28:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a great question too. So. In keeping with the the individuality of each. Each person. I'll start. I start every session in the exact same way. It's always, you know, hey, how are you doing? And how are you doing right now? And then I'll with, like, the skills, you know, that that I've been trained in and that I have, you know, start to read the direction in which they want to go. There's some clients who want to very pragmatic. Okay, let's talk about this, this, this, you know, let's let's address these concerns that address these issues. You know, sometimes they'll bring in, you know, their notes, and we'll be like, I have these questions and like, fuck yeah, let's go for it. Let's address them. Let's head it. We got 45 minutes. You got it. Sometimes I have clients who, you know, they'll come into the session and they're like, I don't even know what I want to talk about today. I was like, oh, you got it. Let's. What did you do? You know, like, what's on your mind. And then the conversation will kind of flow that way. So, you know, when somebody reaches out and, you know, they express interest in and working together, I'll ask them, you know, what's kind of, what's on their mind? What are they? What are they looking for? That way, I can have that general idea of, you know, how I can best support them, but also what what outcome, if any. You know, they they have in mind. Because I do want to make sure that we are going somewhere that's that's beneficial. But again, that, that somewhere and what that looks like looks totally different from one person to the next. A lot of clients will come in and, we'll only meet for one session at a time, and, and that, that works really well for them. And then I might hear from them three years later and they'll pop back. Good. Same thing for another session and they'll be out and running. And then I have clients who we meet every week, and we've been meeting every week for 6 or 7 years, and that's just what works really well for them. And it's I always, you know, like to. Reflect and respect that back of where, where they are at that at that point in time. But yeah, you know, a lot of the, the, the main areas that I, you know, typically typically tackle with, you know. Yeah. Sexual empowerment, shame, sexual anxiety, performance anxiety, lot of body image. You know, just that uncomfort in our own skin, in our own sexuality. And then a lot of, relationship work, too, you know? So exploring open relationships or a consensual non-monogamy, you know, conflict resolution through that, like, you know, just the, the challenges of jealousy and different emotions and, new emotions that we might not have experienced, new dynamics. So I just like to hold to hold these spaces, and, you know, kind of provide, provide whatever support is needed at that at that moment.

Britt East [00:31:15] You know, one of the really cool things about you is there's so many ways to engage with you. You produce lots of wonderful free content, and we will load up the show notes with links to your socials and your website so people can delve in and check you out and find out, you know what? What's a good fit for them? But could you tell us some about, you know, you've got a podcast, you've got a blog, you have a discord server, you've got the Bad Boys Club back room. Can you kind of walk us through this? Because it's it's really cool. I don't know that I've, I've met anybody quite like, you know, has this wide array of services. So you're providing so much for the community in the world. But can you kind of help us sort through all that?

Kevin Martin [00:31:58] Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. And thank you. And and yeah, sometimes I think about it and then like like, oh shit, I hope this isn't, like, overwhelming. And and yet, you know, like, when I come from, you know, these ideas of, okay, you know, how can I help support in any way that I can with, the skills or like, the tool set that I have? You know, I always want to make sure that it's not only intentional, but that it's it's, providing something beneficial to, to someone. And, and as, you know, I, I, I'm a very spiritual person. I, I think like my, the whole reason that I personally am here on this planet is just to help in any way that I can. Like, I always want people to know that they, like, are loved and not alone. Like, that's that's just kind of been my, my core, message since I was young. And so. You know, each moment and every day when I wake up, like I ask myself the same question of like, okay, if today is my last day that I'm here, you know how I helped as many people as I can have I done all that I that I can and like if if I take my last breath today, like, will I be able to say like like, okay, yeah, I did all that I, that I could do. And so if, if, you know, an idea is coming to mind, like a different channel or a different way of working with someone, and it answers that question of like, okay, yeah, like this falls in line with, with that intention. And I'm like, okay, let's, let's do it. And as, as I was getting started, like in my, in my profession, in the mental health field, like I quickly saw how, how inaccessible mental health work can be, especially on the coaching side, which where coaching isn't like an insurance, based service and it's often highly expensive. But it's often what a lot of people are needing to. And so like, creating opportunities that were like affordable and accessible was really important to me as well. So I also want to like, balance that piece out. And so that's why I have kind of these multitude of resources is to hit these, because everybody's coming here and interacting from a different space. You know, some people may have the financial resources, some may not. But that doesn't mean that anyone is more or less deserving of support than than anyone else. And so I want to provide, you know, options. And so, so yeah, I have, like individual coaching sessions, you know, where we meet for, you know, 45 minutes, you know, it's it's a zoom call. It's one on one. Or, you know, if people want to bring their partners, I want to do, you know, couples or groups or triads, you know. Heck, yeah. We we we do it all. And, you know, it's providing that individual support there live in the moment. And, and even with that, like, there's no. Package or program. You know, it's if it's however often you want to meet, I'm here for you to schedule time. But I have, I have that's I do the individual coaching sessions. And then. Yeah, like you shared, I have, what I called the the Bad Boys club. And this, I created this space, because I wanted to separate out. A specific space for four gay men who are exploring sexual empowerment and relationships. What I was finding is that, like trying to tie this in with. More. The word I'm going to use is general. But I don't mean that in a like less than or better than way, but it just it's just different. Like trying to tie sexual empowerment work and relationship empowerment work and with like general coaching of like this is anxiety, stress, you know, stuff like that. It wasn't meeting and it wasn't going to the depths that it needed to go to. And so a separate space definitely called for it. And so, I created, the Bad Boys Club. So it's a part of my website. It's free. And so but it is a member space and I deliberately have it as a member space because that requires people to sign up, with their email address. And, and I do that not to collect emails, but because it provides a layer of safety for everybody inside of that group. Where that kind of helps us to keep that, that space safe for the people inside of it. Because we still interact with a lot of hatred, a lot of negativity, that says, like, don't talk about sex, don't talk about different types of relationships. And so like that, that barrier and that boundary needs to be there for the safety and protection of, of everyone. And so, I have that space inside of the Bad Boys Club. I have a blog, which each week I'll kind of hit on a different topic often, just either what I'm feeling in that moment or what, you know, I talked with clients recently, I, and I think this week's post was on shame, and criticism and comparison. And, you know, and then I'll take that into, you know, how that may show up with sex within, exploring different types of relationships. And so it's, it's very centralized and focused on sex and relationships. Then part of that, people can also join a discord channel where they can interact with other members so they can connect with other, other gay men who are part of that community so they can chat, just get to know each other, build connections across the world, just to help reduce that loneliness, but to help build the connection that we do feel. Then in inside of that, I also have the back room, and the space is super fun. The the back room is, it's essentially like my version of OnlyFans. And, so it's a, it's a paid space. It's a subscription space. It's adults only and that's it for work. It's it's, it's rated like, be very cautious. Like, let me be extremely clear in that, but in that space, like I'm teaching the practice of sexual mindfulness of what that can look like. Because in. And a lot of the coaching work that I've done with gay men over the years. You know, it's one thing to talk about it, but to see it embody it is totally different. Or, you know, we may we may, you know, talk about, okay, you know, this is how shame can impact you. This is how it can look. This is how it feels. But to recognize it and observe it in the moment when it's happening and how to work through that, or you know, how to even heal from all of those old messages, is, is is a totally different practice of its own. And so I, I hold that space as. The best way I can describe it is like role modeling, where, you know, I literally and physically, like, share with you my, you know, my sexual mindfulness practices to provide an example of what it looks like to, to, you know, celebrate our bodies, to enjoy masturbation and sexual self-care and also to still work through the shame of it. Like the video that I posted the other day, was a masturbation practice, but I was having just I myself personally was having a lot of shame, and I was and I was telling, I was that kind of speaking out the thoughts that I was having at that time. And I do that to provide an example of like just this is what it looks like. So if anybody's watching it and they're experiencing something similar, they know that they're not alone, but B, they have a, a potential tool of how to navigate through that when that shows up for them the next time. And Yeah. It's like that that that species is, is really fun. And I also just want to acknowledge that it's not for everybody and not just in the grand scheme of like, you know, this is an adults only space, but it's not for everyone. Also within the gay community itself, because then the the pure fact alone of, you know, me being naked in front of a camera and, and, you know, engaging in and like so sexual self-care naturally can bring up a lot of emotion for the person on the other side. I declined yesterday who told me that, I'm so grateful that he told me this, but he was like, you know, I, I logged in and I was actually judging the hell out of you for doing this space. And I was like, thank you for telling me, because in that indicates like where we're kind of at and that indicates, you know, like what we are working through ourself. And so just the, the pure fact that I have this space that is quite radically like. Sexually empowerment based can trigger a whole hell of a lot of insecurities and somebody. And so if this space isn't for you, that's totally, totally okay. But if you can find it to be a helpful tool or resource, then that's what it's that's what it's there for to.

Britt East [00:41:27] I just love your approach. I just I just absolutely love it. I mean, the, you know, there's something about sexuality that it's, you know, the sex talk therapy is wonderful. Talk therapy in general is is an absolutely magical, transformative process. But there's something when it comes to our sex lives that requires the doing of things, the bringing of the experience into our bodies. And so, like you're saying, whether it's a solo practice or a shared practice, watching it modeled is very different than discussing it conceptually. Theorizing about it, which is also can be very valuable for some people. But, especially in working with clients, requiring clients to, you know, clients like to hide. So requiring clients to, or maybe a gentler way of saying it is giving them, offering them opportunities to engage in this space wherever they are, like you said, but then also with different facets of their being, their physical being, their mind being their their fantasy being all of it, you're able to give them this full buffet of healing options, an array of choices, which I just think is so healing. And you're also modeling a new way of being for queer people that is unapologetically ourselves, unabashedly, who we are not in response to or kowtowing to a different culture, but creating our own culture. You are, like you said, in your interaction with your client, you're dealing with issues as they happen, and modeling to clients the inevitable discord and, confusion and anxiety that comes up when you have been saturated in sexual shame your entire life. Like many of us, not all of your clients have had that experience, I'm sure, but a lot of them maybe have given the community you were working with. So you're able to hit it from multiple angles. And thereby kind of modeling that sexual mindfulness, that, that which is ironic because we're doing it with our bodies. And so it's like, even though it's mindfulness, it can sound like it's always just talking. It's just thinking. It's just no, it's actually what are we doing in the world? How are we being with ourselves? How were we experiencing sex? How can we do that differently? And so whether through free or paid services in this wide array of options, you're giving people a lot of different tools to explore and outlets and, and ways to learn, based on what they need in the moment. I guess I'm curious. You're you're such a unique guy. And I've just been, you know, really enjoyed meeting you. I'm wondering what you hold most dear in your life.

Kevin Martin [00:44:19] Oh, that's a oh, that's a good question. oh. Oh, man. For me, I. Oh, I. I hold up, I hold a lot of gratitude. Like just to exist. And I think there is a lot of times throughout my life where I didn't feel that. And so to feel that now is actually really special. And like the, the subsequent like nature of, of what that means, like for me to exist right now of, you know, like, yeah, my, my ability to, to have these deep conversations and, you know, work with clients on things that I not only used to struggle with, but I still struggle with. You know, like, what an what an honor that is. And like, I always feel like it's such a sacred space and, you know, like, how fucking cool is it that somebody feels safe enough with me to talk about some of the things that they've never shared with anyone or even their, their, their partner? You know, like, I just hold that with, with such a, such a respect and, you know, feel very grateful for that. And we I'm just grateful for all the other the, the blessings in like my personal life too, like my relationships that, that fill me up, my, my family and my friends and, my dog where I live, my body, the things that like that I can exercise like that I can go outside the sunsets like it. All of that is so it's so enriching. And. Yeah. I think like, you know, in the intro, you know, shared like a little bit about my, my grandpa and I like, he was my biggest role model. He passed away when I was quite young, and, but I just he just laid the foundation for my, my values and my perspective so much. And what I love, there's so much I loved about him, but, like, he really struggled with depression himself, and I do, too. And so. You know, growing up on a farm in the conservative Midwest, watching somebody and observing somebody like role model, especially like a highly regarded male in the community at that time, like watching him role model, his own navigation of depression, like gave me that permission to do to do the same. But it. You know. It also helped instill in me. Like this. This depth of appreciation for. For every moment where. Like I. And I'm really grateful to hold this perspective that, you know, today may be my last day, or I don't know if my loved ones will be here tomorrow. Like, I don't know what tomorrow is going to look like. And yeah, that can be terrifying and petrifying. But it's also a fact. And also that. Liberates us in this moment to be like, well, this is the only space that we have that like we only have today. So of course, I'm going to text my mom and tell her how much I love her and, you know, tell my sister that she makes me laugh. And I love her too. And I love my nieces and, you know, the people, my community and my partner and my friends like, and, you know, like it. I'm just. I'm just so grateful for for for that alone. So thank you for asking that question. That's really beautiful.

Britt East [00:48:21] Yeah. What gives you hope?

Kevin Martin [00:48:24] When I especially like with this work. Like seeing. Seeing these these moments of. Of growth and winds and. You know, celebration among clients. Sake gives me so much hope for, for our community. And that that can look so, so vastly different. And it does look so vastly different from one client to the next, you know, maybe maybe one clients. When was them stepping out of a relationship that was really unhealthy for them? You know, so that gives me hope that, you know, that person is honoring themself, but also the their partner or their partners too. And seeing that this wasn't a good match. It gives me hope that people are listening to like their, their internal voice. You know, or it gives me hope when, when, client goes to a hookup party for the first time in his life. And that's been something he's been wanting to do since he was, you know, a teen, and he's in his 50s. Like, how fucking cool is that? One of my, one of my favorite clients. They're all my favorite. I'm going to get in trouble, there. But, you know, he's in his in his 70s. And he's he's still okay with me, chatting about him a little bit, like he just recently found. Kind of like a commune of gay men, that he's having, like, you know, deep, passionate sex with. They're also friends, and they they live together, and they're building new dreams together. And it's like, how incredible is that? Like, that's that's that's beautiful. And so, like, it gives me hope to see people inside the gay community and outsiders in general. Like just it's going to sound cheesy, but just being true to them, but in a way that's respectful and non-judgmental of everybody else. You know, some people say like, this is what I want to do for me. And also I'm celebrating for you that that's something that might be totally different, but like, how cool for both of us that we are listening to our own self and moving forward with like that aligned energy. Like that's that's what gives me hope.

Britt East [00:50:46] That's beautiful. Where do you seek refuge?

Kevin Martin [00:50:49] I definitely seek refuge. In in my relationships. Relationships are are huge for me. I know that I can't do this life alone. I don't want to, but I also know that I just literally physically can't. And so I'm extremely grateful to have a variety of relationships that. Help to support me with what I'm needing most at that time. And, you know, just based on the connections that that we have, whether it is with my partner or my best friends or family or, clients, you know, that it's if there is any support that I need that. I'm grateful and blessed to have the opportunity to have options for whatever refugees calling at that time. They also like seek refuge and, yeah, like and and and spirituality. And like the grounding and, the, the rootedness of it all of. The fact that I don't know what, like. Yeah, I know that I'm. That I'm here to help people. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't know what it's like, what's happening, like, you know, like, there's so many unanswered questions, but there's a there's a beauty in that because then it helps me to remind myself that, okay, it doesn't matter. Like it doesn't matter if like, I don't have the fanciest car or the fanciest house, or if I didn't get my to do list done, or if Phoebe, my dog peed on the floor, like, it doesn't matter. Like, like. Like there's, there's a, there's a, there's a lighthearted like joy in that. And so I kind of seek refuge in that reminder too, of, you know, even when shit really, really sucks. It all. It all works out in the end.

Britt East [00:52:58] I'm going to ask you a loaded question because of your bio, what you wrote in there and because of what you just said and my experience of you meeting you today. How are you redeemed? How do you find redemption?

Kevin Martin [00:53:11] That is a great question. Oh my gosh, you were question master. These are also good. 00I think like when I, when I first hear that a. Oh, well, when I hear the word redeemed like that takes me back to. It takes me back to, Bethlehem Lutheran Church. And and honestly, I don't know if I have thought of what that or even thought of that word like since then. And so I think, like, in this moment, like, I, I want to ask myself like, okay, what what is. What's the definition of that? And so for me, I guess like to be redeemed now at this point in my life. It's that moment when I've fallen down and I need to stand back up, like, how do I how do I redeem myself from that fall? And. For me. It's. It's digging. Digging back into the reason why. Like, why am I. Not only why am I here, but why am I doing what I'm doing in the first place? Because I know it's been like the, the depth of my gut and my soul and my spirit that, like, this is what I need to do right now. That may change, but as of this point in time, like the work that I'm doing is exactly what I need to be doing. And so anytime that I, that I fall or I get scared or worried or I get like criticism or whatever that is, like. Leaning back and on that, that voice, you know, like, inside, and, like, checking back in on, like, my belief system, my values, and. I'm tangent real quick. We'll come right back. I'm a huge, huge Lady Gaga fan. She, like, just the biggest little monster there is. Like, when she, when she was getting really big was when I was going through, like, some really, tough times in her music. Just kind of got me through it. And so she gave this interview several years ago. But she was talking about, like, she said this phrase of, like, if I can go to bed at night and lay my head on the pillow and be on and know that I've done all that I could or that I did a good job that day, then then that's all that matters. And I love that, that visual. And so I, you know, in those moments where I do fall, where I need redemption, like I'll check back in on like that was an internal beliefs and values of like, okay, do I still stand by everything that I've done when I go to bed tonight? You know, and if there is, you know, however it lands with somebody else. Like, do I know that I did what I felt most connected to and what was correct for me in that, in that point in time. And, and if I can say yes, then, you know, then like, that's, that's all that matters. So that's where I kind of find redemption.

Britt East [00:56:21] I love it, I love it. I have shared a lot on this show about my, experience in the 12 steps, and that's a key tenant about, you know, before I retire at night, I kind of survey the landscape of the day and take a fearless moral inventory of all that I experienced. And, you know, you kind of describe that. I was hoping that word might trigger you redemption. It's it's something. And so it definitely in the US, this is a global podcast, of course, but in the US, that's a very loaded word for a lot of us who have, come from a, you know, different background. So I thank you for, for sharing that. You know, it's Kevin, it's just been such a pleasure to chat with you today. It's been an absolute delight to me. You. You're such an amazing healer. You bring such a positive, joyful energy, to the world. You're going to help so many, so many people in this lifetime. And I'm just going to be cheering you on the whole way. Thank you so much.

Kevin Martin [00:57:21] It's it's such an honor. Thank you. Thank you for all you do. Thank you for providing the space. And this time, this is this has been amazing. I'm truly thankful and grateful for you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Britt East [00:57:33] Oh, yes. You're so welcome. And like I said, listeners, we're going to load up the, show notes with all sorts of goodies so you can, find Kevin, and whatever. You know, space suits you best in whatever moment you are in. And, that's one of the pleasures of of engaging with somebody who, who gives you lots of entry points and lots of options to, to consume their work. So I really encourage you to do it. He's he's producing some amazing stuff. And I know I've been a huge fan for a long time. Well congratulations listeners. You've made it through another episode of Not Going Quietly. I'm so proud of you. We could not do this show without you and your love and support. My name is Britt East. And until next time, bye bye.

Britt East [00:58:20] You've been listening to Not going quietly with your host, Brit East. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. As we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. Check out our show notes for links, additional information, and episodes located on your favorite podcast platform.