Living Out Proud with Kirk Barnett

Britt East [00:00:02] Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast where we inspire growth, beat down biases and get into all sorts of good trouble with your host, Britt East. No topic is off limits as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. So get ready to join us for some courageous conversation, because Not Going Quietly starts right now.

Britt East [00:00:30] Hey everyone, welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast for outraged optimists and heartbroken healers all over the world, where we surface life's searing truths in the name of radical togetherness. I'm your host, Britt East, and I am so excited today because I have brought you just a fantastic featured guest that I can't wait to introduce you to. So let's dive right in.

Britt East [00:00:53] Kirk Barnett, a native of Alabama, now calls Arkansas home with many trips to Florida to spend time with his partner of five years while his day job is in sales to a large retailer. His calling is being a coming out coach. In his coaching, he focuses on supporting men who are currently in mixed orientation marriages or were married to women with a passion for empowering individuals to live authentically.

Britt East [00:01:17] Kirk is one of the founding members of Live Out Proud, an organization committed to providing resources and support for those navigating the journey of self-discovery and acceptance. Kirk's personal journey is deeply intertwined with his professional endeavors. Having been married to a woman himself, he understands firsthand the complexities and challenges of coming out later in life. Kirk bravely embraced his true identity and came out 12 years ago, a pivotal moment that transformed his life and ignited his mission to help others on similar paths.

Britt East [00:01:50] In addition to his coaching work, he is working hand in hand with his partner Adam to organize the first Live Out Proud conference. This event will be held on May 4th, 2024, in Denver, Colorado and will focus on the issues and concerns of gay men. It is meant to provide tactics that can change our limiting beliefs. Oh my god, love that and move us forward to a higher level. Amen. Kirk cherishes spending time with his family, and can often be found cheering on his kids at softball and baseball games, finding immense joy in their achievements and growth on the field. Furthermore, Kirk values quality time with his boyfriend, especially enjoying relaxing days spent at the beach. Wellwho doesn't? Kirk. How the hell are you? Welcome to the show!

Kirk Barnett [00:02:33] Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk about everything.

Britt East [00:02:37] Yeah, absolutely. So first I want to get in. You know, we referenced it in your bio, but I want to learn more about your nonprofit organization Live Out Proud. So tell us about your mission, who you serve, what what got you going? What inspired you to do this work?

Kirk Barnett [00:02:50] So it's it's really interesting. This was kind of like a lightning bolt moment I had three years ago. And. Just being an open book. At the time, I had met Adam online and, he wasn't all the way out, so, we're long distance. So the way that we communicated was obviously electronic. And so I started putting more of myself out there on social media just so that he could see it. And what I found is it resonated with so many people. Just seeing me be a normal person, like my sexuality was minimized because I wasn't talking about that. I was just talking about everything going on in my life. And honestly, it was just for him to see what was going on in my day. And I remember. So I was part of a business mastermind and entrepreneur entrepreneur mastermind and the lady, she was like, you know, find your movement. And that was kind of her homework. Her call to action was to find your movement, like, what are you going to rally around? And somebody had sent me a message and, said, you know, I just really appreciate how you live and how you a, you know, show everything. And I was like, yeah, I just want everybody to live out proud. And it was like at that moment that it hit me and I was like, okay, that's it. That's the movement. And it's just kind of morphed from there. It's like, you know, like I said in my bio, I have a day job. So yeah, it's the ups and downs of an organization. And actually this year we organized as a nonprofit, which to me feel so much better. And, it allows so much, so many more avenues to get support for the mission. And when you, when you expand, live out proud, it's, live every day fully out in the open and proud of the miracle human that you are. And that's kind of what we want to center around.

Britt East [00:04:46] Okay. Would you repeat that? That was so good. I don't want it to get lost in the shuffle.

Kirk Barnett [00:04:51] Yeah. So it's, live every day fully. Out in the open. Proud of the miracle human you are. Wow.

Britt East [00:05:00] That's so beautiful.

Kirk Barnett [00:05:02] Yeah. And it it's, it's funny like saying it now and saying it slow and intentionally. It does have a lot of impact. There's a lot of power behind it. And what I've found with clients, they don't believe any of that. Yeah. Yeah. And you know. So that's why the organization exists, is to start allowing. My focus is GT man, but ultimately I want the organization to be larger, and open it up to the entire queer community.

Britt East [00:05:40] Oh, sure. I mean, that is just so beautiful. First of all, I love, the way that you share about the there not being one way to be gay. You know, I have had, a journey that's been more of a media trope where it's like moved to a big city, lived in the gay ghetto, you know, and I just kind of thought, like, because I was an idiot, I just kind of thought like, oh, everybody's just like me.

Kirk Barnett [00:06:05] You know? You know.

Britt East [00:06:07] Even though I grew up in, in Tennessee and stuff, but it's like, oh, everybody's just like me. You moved to Big City, and that's where you come out and like, you know, happily ever after. But you know, as part of doing this work for the past two decades, it's like I've realized I've met so many guys all over the country coming out of all different ages with all, from all different walks of life. I recently had somebody on the podcast last season who came out in his late 70s, for instance, and it's just people coming out in all sorts of different ways about all sorts of different things. Not just sexual orientation, not just gender orientation, but about all sorts of different things. And it's like there's no one way to be gay or by or pan or trans or whatever it is. It's like, whatever you're doing is what's what's right for you. And I just love how that you are centering the lived experience of your clients and, you know, and, everyone out there, rather than trying to impose some set of rules and standards on people, you know, it's like you're you're empowering them to, to be themselves. So, yeah, it's I mean, I think it's also really cool that you have this nonprofit because it's like you have this skeptical audience of gay men and gay men who have been, like, so abused and used and schemed and scammed and and so it's like that's that, you know, cuts right to the chase of your mission, vision and values. It's like, hey, I'm not trying to like, bilk you of all your hard in cash. It's like we're trying to help each other. We're trying to build community. The world is oriented towards tearing us apart and keeping us in solitude and and this epidemic of loneliness, and we're building community to address that. I just think it's beautiful. So tell us about this conference that was in the bio. It's like it's in your inaugural conference, Live out proud, which, by the way, I love that you just rattled that off. Live Out Proud is such a great name and you just rattled it off spontaneously. To some person it's.

Kirk Barnett [00:07:59] Like it's like one of those lightning bolt.

Britt East [00:08:01] Yeah. No wonder. I mean, you got to name your business after that. So tell us about this conference and then Denver on May 20th. May 4th of 2024, which is this year. What's it all about?

Kirk Barnett [00:08:12] Yeah. So basically it's just a, not it's just it is a self-help. Conference centered around Gbtc. Man. Buy Gbtc man. So we have five speakers lined up. And the whole reason like this has been bouncing around in my brain for years. And finally I just pulled the plug. You know, we decided to go for it. Like, if you've ever been to a motivational conference like Tony Robbins or, you know, there's other ones out there like Grant Cardone has ten x and like all these things and there's like the more male centric or masculine centric, whereas it's like this who, you know, I definitely don't get down in that, in that kind of energy. Like that kind of energy will shut me down. Yeah. So I'm not going to learn anything. Yeah. I've been most of the masterminds and conferences that I've been to. I've been more female oriented and, naturally, I feel okay there. Like I went to a mastermind in Colorado. Ironically, it's a three day retreat building business, and it was me and 20 women, and I was perfectly fine. Like, I was very comfortable and like, you know, but there's still something about the way things are said where your experience is still kind of on the outside, and it's not to a detriment of any of them. I mean, there lived experiences, there lived experience. And so that's what this is about. Hopefully there's around 150 men that are there, and they're going to be learning from some people that I pulled together that just have some really unique insight in different aspects of our journey. Mike, Emeli, who I know you've had on the show and I mean, he's just incredible. And the way that he talks about sex and opens your mind up to King can like what it can be and how you can, just really unlock yourself by exploring your, your motivations and what you find, not attractive. What turns you on? Is. I mean, he's probably he's probably going to do something on stage. So he's going to like, work with somebody on stage. Well, you know, I could go through all the list, but I do, I want to come back to something you said about, like, how guys are like. They're always teach me how to be gay.

Britt East [00:11:03] Yeah.

Kirk Barnett [00:11:05] So that this conference is not that. Because my ultimate goal. And what I want is I don't want anybody to. Really. I don't want them to give a damn about the fact that I'm gay. I know some people will, and they're going to, like, judge me on that and all that. I mean, I grew up in the South, I live in the South, so I know, I know that, but I want everybody to lead with. I'm Kirk. You know I'm Brit. That's it. And then let me decide how much you know about me. But I'm going to tell you all the interesting parts about me. And I guarantee you, my sexuality is the least interesting thing about me. Like what I do behind closed doors with the person that I love. That's not even going to come into the picture. So. I'm sorry, I just went off on a tangent.

Britt East [00:11:56] No, not at all. Not at all. That's. That's wonderful. So. Yeah, let's come back to the guests. The featured speakers in a second. What can people expect to happen at this conference? What's kind of like, what are they going to get?

Kirk Barnett [00:12:10] So it is a it is a four day. So we're going to have the speakers. It's going to be much more interactive. It's going to be fine. Like I'm not going to like I've got to be there all day. So I've got to be there all day. It's going to be fun. Like, you know, there probably be, some different things we do just to get people to shake people up. One of the things I do when I'm coaching guys, particularly because a lot of them come from very religious, backgrounds. So their, their boxes are very tight on, you know, what's appropriate is like break through those boxes by talking about some crass subjects maybe. So I'm sure there'll be some of that. It's just going to be a really fun time to connect with other ggtom in. You're going to hear from Gbtc. Q men who've had these experiences. And you're going to. I'm hoping that the space, because you're surrounded by people that have had similar journeys. Your mind is going to be opened up to learn more, and you're just going to feel more comfortable to absorb the information that's being put out there.

Britt East [00:13:30] Oh, sounds sounds absolutely amazing. So so you talk some about Mike O'Malley. Mike, I am I is actually my, coach. So is.

Kirk Barnett [00:13:39] He really.

Britt East [00:13:40] Podcast. Yeah. So I'm just, like, his biggest fan in the world. So, you know, I know a couple of the speakers that you have there, and I just adore him and just all the listeners, if you get a chance to go to this conference, I'm telling you, Mike O'Malley will change your life. He's absolutely extraordinary. So, I mean, to get the chance to see him work with somebody on stage would be such a gift. So I just I'm so thrilled that you're that you're getting to host town.

Kirk Barnett [00:14:08] Yeah, he's a great he's great at what he does. And he's just overall, like, such a damn nice guy. Like, he's, you know, we've checked in on each or he's checked in on me mostly over the last couple of years. Just like a quick message. Or he'll be like, hey, can we let's just get on a zoom and talk for 30 minutes, just, you know, check in on me, make sure that things are still going. So. Yeah. No, he's an awesome guy.

Britt East [00:14:35] Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah, he's he's also maybe, a true genius. Like, I think he's maybe the smartest person I've ever met in my life. And so just, you know, absolutely extraordinary. Featured guests. I'm, so glad that you're getting the chance to speak with him. So, who are some of the other featured speakers?

Kirk Barnett [00:14:54] So we also have, Adam Brooks, who, he's a, a professor at the University of Alabama, where I went to school, but he actually did his dissertation on coming out and the power of relationships after coming out. Oh, wow. So. And I want to get the title right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I want to make sure these.

Britt East [00:15:16] Are some heavy hitters.

Kirk Barnett [00:15:18] Yeah. I'm telling you, brick would be great. You should come. Okay, let me get to. I just want to get the title. Yeah. So the title of his is out of the closet and into personal development. So basically, what I envision. And from what he told me, it's kind of like deconstructing the weight of the closet. Oh, wow. And how it slows you down and what you can do to speed up that progression. You know, especially for a lot of guys coming out later in life, you know. I've heard you mention it. The second adolescence.

Britt East [00:15:53] Yeah, yeah.

Kirk Barnett [00:15:53] And all those things. It's kind of.

Britt East [00:15:56] I love.

Kirk Barnett [00:15:57] Them. Yeah, it's going to be great. And then, I don't know. We have Isaac Archuleta. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but, he actually has a clinic in Denver. Oh, it's called I am clinic. And, I've. I've been on his podcast that he does, but what I love about the way he talks about coming out is, he talks about it in kind of removing the sexuality of it. And just saying, like, what if you could explain to someone that I feel emotionally attached to this person or emotionally attracted to this person, and they just happen to be of the same sex? And it kind of elevates the connection between two individuals, which I love. Because for me, I was it was so weird. When I came out. Like I said, I live in Arkansas. I sell to a large retailer, the largest. So you can imagine the environment, the business environment I'm in and I'm a white dude, got blue eyes. I'm tall, like I walk into a room. Nobody knows anything about me other than what they see. And you get the privilege of all of that. The assumption that you're straight. And I felt the change of how some people treated me once they found out. Once I came out. And I was so. Blown away like I had a little, privilege pity party for me. Because I'm like, I'm the same person. Now, they just happened to know what I'm doing behind closed doors. Oh. You know, and they had made an assumption about what I was doing to close behind closed doors. Of course, you know, I was married to a woman, so they had made an assumption about what I was doing. But now they knew that something was different. And the way they treated me based on that piece of information, which is none of their damn business anyways. Was so mind blowing to me. That, and I just love the way Isaac talks about the emotional connection between two people and how he elevates our experience beyond the sex.

Britt East [00:18:17] That sounds amazing. Let me let me pause you there because this is just too juicy. I cannot resist. Because like you said, it's so tempting. And, for all of us to inadvertently dip into assumptions just for the sake of expediency, if nothing else, or to rely on labels to tell us everything we think we know about that person. I mean, that's what labels are for, there to quickly convey information. But they put us into boxes that, you know, we don't naturally, fit into. For instance, it'd be really easy to make assumptions, like you said, about you and your wife at the time that you're straight, but you could be bisexual. You could be bi romantic. You could be pansexual. There's all sorts of things you could be. But society, just for the sake of expedience, because we're all busy, retired, we're working five jobs, we have ten kids, whatever it is. And it's like, oh, he's straight. Check in, move on. With my day. I don't sit and think about, I don't sit and ponder it. But we inadvertently silence people when we do that. You know, conversely, I'm on the other end of the experience where people know I'm gay immediately, like before I turn the corner. People like, whoa, somebody get around here. You know, it's like, people know I'm gay, but. And then they make all sorts of assumptions based on me about that. Like, I was an elite athlete. I was super gay as an elite athlete, whatever that even means. But I'm joking, obviously, but it's like, yeah, there's no one right way to be gay or bi or straight or queer. There's lots of straight guys out there having a ton of sodomy, having all those straight guys out there getting pegged. So don't tell me that there's one way to be gay or one way to be straight. Give me a break. The stats on gay porn usage. And you know, we have lesbians out there digging gay porn. So it's like, be yourself, follow the energy. And I just love I think that sounds like you're such a great speaker. And I love how you shared some of your story so generously. And I mean, it sounds like a fabulous topic. And that book sounds absolutely amazing.

Kirk Barnett [00:20:16] Yeah, yeah. And, one of the other things that Isaac's clinic does is they use, neurofeedback. So, I've asked him to speak a little bit on that and the way that it can retrain the trauma response in your brain, you know. I had to learn a little bit to call myself a coach, just because I needed that for my own cred and street cred and the the science of neuroplasticity and all that is just amazing to me. And and how quickly we can retrain some of those negative thoughts in our brain. And he takes it a step further. And, you know, it's, I don't want to necessarily call it a version of eMDR therapy, but it is, clinical where it remapped the brain. And, he was talking to me about it and pretty much 100% of queer individuals. And this percentage is probably pretty high for the general population, but 100% of queer individuals they've ever tested have trauma responses built into their brain, whether they think that they've had the greatest coming out early.

Britt East [00:21:24] How could you not?

Kirk Barnett [00:21:26] Yeah. So, and I think some people can just get so used to it. That they don't realize where all the little pings are coming from.

Britt East [00:21:36] Exactly.

Kirk Barnett [00:21:38] But yeah, I'm super excited to hear.

Britt East [00:21:41] I want to share a quick story about that. I. I'm somebody who's been in therapy a long time and had a lot of mental health issues, and when I was first in therapy was a, I mean, I'm less certain age. And so when I was first in therapy, the science was different. And at the time, they're like, oh, well, you know, this is this is what you can expect. And, and certain things never formed in your brain and they never will. And this is a therapist with the best of intentions trying their best in science. I mean, I'm of a certain age, so. And this is what they knew at the time. And it's like if they don't form an early childhood or even by early adolescence, you are Sol. They are never going to form. And it's like learning to dance the tango without both legs. And so that's it. Make the best of it. We'll come to find out, like you said, like your guest speaker sounds like he's going to talk about all sorts of things can change and heal. And I mean, literally at the physical level, cells are are are created, new synapses are formed in the brain. So there's a physical structural change as well. It's not just all kind of like tutti frutti like, you know, therapy theory, you know, New Age. I mean, it's like, no real things are changed. Real physical things, chemicals change in your brain. And it's just so cool because it's like all of us have the power to be redeemed and to, live, live the life that we want.

Kirk Barnett [00:23:09] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was the. The biggest thing for me is. You know, with coaching, what I really focus on is the ability for, you know, I utilize my sales training to help my clients with the conversations they have is the internal conversations and the external conversations. That's really where I focus. But what I always tell them is the retraining of those negative thoughts. You can retrain that so much faster than it actually took to get to where.

Britt East [00:23:47] You actually.

Kirk Barnett [00:23:49] Just focus on.

Britt East [00:23:49] It. That's such an important point because you can sit here and assume again, like, wow, it took me 20 years of this behavior and habit forming to get here today. Is it going to take me another 20 to correct it? And that's not the case at all. There's orders of magnitude difference. Like you're saying. It heals surprisingly quickly as it's attended to in various ways. And I mean, thank goodness the science has caught up with what people, probably a lot of people probably intuitively knew to their healing work over the generations. But but now it's like, no, it's widely, if not completely accepted that you have the power to physically change. And it happens much more quickly than you might ever believe.

Kirk Barnett [00:24:30] Yeah, absolutely. So if you want to go, we got two more speakers. You have three if you're cool. Yeah. So, we have a guy, and you may know him. Jay. Jay Windley. Yo.

Britt East [00:24:45] Yeah. He's fabulous.

Kirk Barnett [00:24:47] Yeah. So, what I love about some of the stuff that he's done is his work with Brave Trails. So. And you know, when he talks, he's also an astrologer, so I might get him to, like, read my cards or something, I don't know. I don't know if I want that all out there in front of me. But the title of his is Nurturing the Inner Gay child. And he talks about how when he did Brave Trails, which is a, summer camp for queer teenagers. He really got to interact and see queer joy, through teenagers or kids and something that he didn't experience and something that a lot of us didn't experience. Wow. And it's, it's really interesting because one of my goals for live out proud is that we eventually this grows to a multi-day event. Yeah. Where we kind of have like General Assembly or whatever you want to call it, where it's all members of the community. But then we also recognize that there space for each, I call it each letter of the alphabet because there's shared experiences that I can't relate to. And then we bring in coaches that have, you know, dealt with that and they kind of talk through some of the, the challenges. But it's really important for me to have a family day, like just it's one day, maybe it's half a day, just families. And I want all the little queer teenagers to go have some fun, go be their little queers. Like, do their heart's desire, like, let's go do something really cool and let's sit the parents down and talk to them about being an advocate for their child well and providing a safe space for the parents to because me having two teenagers. I recognize how hard it is to parent a teenager. And not break their spirit, but prepare them for the world. And. Both of, my kids, as far as I know, they've not identified any different, you know, straight sets and. I can only imagine the extra layer that that adds. And for the parents and you know, with me doing what I've done, I've actually had a couple of parents in the past come to me and talk to me as their kids have come out and. They're just so concerned they want to do the right thing. And like, you know, they tell me what they say and they're like, I don't know if I said the right thing. And, and if I can share one story, I think it's. Yes, but. How? So mom of a daughter, she's like, oh my God, I think I just ruined my child's life. And she told me, she tells me this story and she's like, we were arguing. She's been being difficult. And then she just in the middle of the fight, the teenager says, well, maybe I'm into girls. And the mom responds. Well, I guess that just means we won't have any more sleepovers. And she was like, I was just so mad at her about something else. And I was like, well, to be honest, that's. I mean, she was being an asshole by throwing that at you and trying to use it against you. But, I mean, that's kind of an okay response. I mean, you're not saying anything. You're just saying, okay, so you might dig, girl. So then I don't want you in there with your girlfriend, you know, doing things that may not be appropriate for 14 year olds. So it was just but I say all that to highlight. Like how? You know, the people that have come to me like how many questions they have and like concerns about the environment and that, you know, and God knows what they hear, what we hear in Arkansas. Yeah. And I and the people are careful around me because I'm out. So I'm sure people that. You know, are in spaces where somebody thinks that there's no other gay person or queer person is going to be. You know, people are going to hear different things. So I want to provide that space for the parents, too. That was a long story to say. I want to provide a safe space for the parents to get educated where it's not the responsibility of the child to educate the parent.

Britt East [00:29:37] Oh, it's so beautiful. I love the audacity of your vision, and I hope you never lose that and that because queer people deserve it. And, we deserve your personal audacity. And I just. I think it's so friggin beautiful, and I just I was sitting here like, you know, pinching myself, like, please don't cry. Please don't cry, please don't cry. It's your stuff. Because I cry every frigging episode. And it's like, you know, just the idea because I visualize what it would have been like to my teenage tween, pre-teen or whatever self to witness, even an implicit, unexpressed commitment by loved ones to come and learn, and if not, celebrate and be part of of this, journey, would have just been.

Kirk Barnett [00:30:29] So.

Britt East [00:30:30] Life changing, so different than what I experienced. It's just such a gift. And like you said, it's so unfair that like so many other groups, that we are somehow left to both bear the burden of the bigotry and be responsible for addressing it. And that is just patently unfair, especially with kids. And, you know, it's, I just think it would be so healing and fabulous. And it's absolutely a lovely vision.

Kirk Barnett [00:31:02] Yeah. That that I think that that one is so important to me just because kind of what you said just to. So I mean, I knew from like a very young age, a very young age, I can tell you the exact moment where I realized that I was different. And. And as soon as you realize you're different. What's so funny is like, all the little. All the little. Messages that you're not okay because I'm so fucking loud. Yeah, like. Things that people don't know that they're using against. You are so loud and it's so prominent, especially in those formative years. Like, I mean, I was, I think seven, 7 or 8 and like from then on, just all the little messages of, oh, you better keep your damn mouth shut about this, because. It's not okay. So yeah, to kind of take that burden off. And then also as a parent, helping parents, I think it's important. So then we just have one speaker left.

Britt East [00:32:18] Wait, hold. Hold on real quick, because I just have to sing Jay's praises. Because I do happen to know Jay as well. He is so kind and so sweet and so funny and smart. I just another I mean, of the two people I know that are your speakers the just fabulous and I mean, people are going to be so they're going to get your your attendees are going to get so much value off of those two speakers alone. And the way you describe you is it just sounds like an epic, life changing, soul healing, redemptive event. I'm so excited about it.

Kirk Barnett [00:32:55] Yeah, if it doesn't happen for anybody else, it's going to happen for me. So that's the best way to do it. Yeah. So then we have Eli Honeycutt, who, he, definitely leads in the spirituality, but he's also a, a corporate trainer. But he talks a lot about perspective and the queer perspective, which I personally love because. I think sometimes coaching. It's so funny. The times that I have with my clients where I say something that seems so simple and it just like blows their mind and, and it's just because they're given a little bit of perspective on whatever the situation is and they can't see it. And I'm like. And I know it's just because I've been in it. Because I find myself sometimes coaching myself, because I recently have realized, like, okay, you you help people do this. So you really need to hone in on this for yourself. And I coach myself when I'm like, oh, so I know that it's easy to lose perspective when you're in it. But, I'm really excited to hear him speak because he talks about perspective all the time, the queer perspective, and he brings himself to the, when he talks. And normally he's talking in corporate spaces and he's like, and I bring all the queer into it, and I'm like, okay, this is going to be great because he's going to be in a queer space. Yeah. And so yeah, so I'm super excited. He was the most recent ad and that rounded us out. And then we're going to have a panel at the end where everybody where the attendees can ask questions and kind of wonderful.

Britt East [00:34:48] I also have a day job. I work in digital marketing, and so I love being salty and queer in the corporate space. I've worked for virulently homophobic companies, and I'm at a company now that's actually, trying to be affirmative, affirming. And, I just love, like, what? You just queering up the space, moving past the rainbow flags and just getting real and, like, getting and, like, my LinkedIn account is super salty just because I just want to I just want to afflict the comfortable with my queerness, just afflict people. And so I love the idea that he's bringing all of themself to these corporate environments. It's like them maybe didn't know what they got when they hired him. It's so healing and important. And again, queer people deserve that, you know, and straight people deserve to hear that, too, frankly, because it's yeah, their homophobia is hurting them. So, you know, it just sounds like an absolutely amazing event.

Kirk Barnett [00:35:44] I think sometimes. So you just hit on something like. If you've ever heard Alok speak. And how they speak about homophobia is more about the person. And they're just pissed. I'm going to paraphrase in my like the backwoods Alabama Southerners, they're just pissed off that they can't look that bad ass walking down the street in whatever they choose to wear, you know, and or and all that. And he, they say so much more eloquently. But I've really started paying attention to that and I can. I don't want to say I feel sorry for straight people, but I have found that once we get broken out of the closet, someone is like, okay, so what else is there missing? Because of all these social check, you know.

Britt East [00:36:45] This consultant.

Kirk Barnett [00:36:45] Checklist? Yeah. The checklist that we're going through, like. Why am I going through this checklist when it's just a social? It's a social constraint put on me by somebody when I don't have to. Yeah. So I feel. I. I wish that straight couples could feel the liberation, or straight people could feel the liberation of owning all of them, because I don't think they do. And I love what you say about how everybody comes out. There's something exactly that people, people come out about. Maybe it's not sexuality, but it's something shame based that society has said, you can't talk about this and you know. But. Yeah, I wish more straight people could connect those dots to understand what we're going through.

Britt East [00:37:40] And that's why it's so important to bring allies into the community explicitly, not just welcome them out of a sense of pragmatism, but it's like, no, this work is for all of us, and you're queer, too. The second you start resisting the the culturally constituted constraints that street supremacy imposes upon you, you become queer regardless of who you're sleeping with or attracted to. And so there's an intrinsically liberating experience just being in relationship with queer people, just by knowing us because we model that that freedom. We paint with more colors. Great personal price and a cost. You know, it's a complex, rich story that we all have, but there's a huge upside to it. The thrilled when we first came out, you know, is and that there's a part of that that never goes away. And so I'm with you. It's not about pity. It's about empathy. Like, oh, honey, you're so cute in your little suit and tie in your fancy car and all these things that you're pretending to be. But life is so much more than that. You know that main quote like life's a buffet and here we are, all starving to death. And it's like, who are you kidding with these constraints? Just be yourself. That's all we want. We want to fall in love with you. And we do that when you are yourself instead of these walls, instead of the ways we create our images. So obviously there's a cost to it, but it's, it's I think most of us would say, you know, depending on where and when you live, most of us would say that it's well worth it.

Kirk Barnett [00:39:19] Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's funny when you mention that about how we live, so much more colorfully, it made me think of. So I love to watch period dramas and stuff and, like, right now I'm watching, gentleman Jack. And it's an HBO series, and it's about, a lesbian. Her name was. And Lister. Man. She threw down the gantlet multiple times. But what's so funny about that at that time is how affection was so like. Like a slight touch of your hand could just be like, you know, it shows them like sending them over the moon or just that real electric connection. And then, you know, and I'm sure straight people watch that and they're like. And I'm like, I don't know, but I know how that feels. Because I've been in situations where you couldn't be 100% who you were, and that little brush of skin, like, sends an electric spark through you. And they don't. And that's what is sad to me is like, I don't know that they always feel those emotions or those feelings, you know, and like, they hold hands all the time. Adam and I hold hands in public on purpose. And it's kind of like sometimes it feels like it's an obligation. But I think, you know, because he's a little bit taller than me and it's like, no, people need to see this. Like the little queer kid needs to see it. And then the homophobic redneck needs to see it. And you know. I think what I hope happens at the conference is, you know, live out proud is all about just being who you are in this space that you're in. And I feel and I hope that more people would do that because I think that there's a lot of us that assimilate. And we assimilate out of habit and safety. And sometimes we assimilate thinking it's a sad thing to do. And it's probably we could probably push the envelope a little bit more because people need to see us being gay. To change the tide of what is being said about us. You know, they need to see us being gay and just, I hate this word a normal way. And when I say that, I mean, like, oh, there's Kirk and Adam, two nice guys. They're together. They're holding hands and expand their mind a little bit. Or, you know, there's Mark. He likes to paint his nails. Cool. Like, you know, I think we need to expand what people see. In hopes that it expands their minds and, for lack of a better word right now, makes us less scary and more real.

Britt East [00:42:30] Well, and also creates more liberation in their lives. So, for instance, like maybe I'm a street guy and I don't experience much or any same sex attraction, but all of a sudden, because I'm in relationship with some queer folks, I'm a little less encumbered, a little less constrained, a little less afraid to throw my arm around a buddy.

Kirk Barnett [00:42:53] Yeah. And you know, and then that creates that even more connection with your friend.

Britt East [00:42:59] Exactly.

Kirk Barnett [00:43:00] It's just, you know. And it's so funny. So. Adam. I'm sure you won't mind me. Channels, whatever. He. He paints his nails and he told me, like, one of the other trainers who's like, ex-military or retired military, you know, came in and had painted his nails black and it looked cool. And it was, you know, like just an expansion of expression. It's such a big win, and everybody's okay with that. I'm in the gym. He's a CrossFit coach, so everybody's okay with him. But it's just like that extra little, you know that. Really. Kind of pushes the envelope. I had a, I had a. I guess a talk at my church. So I go to an affirming church and for pride Month we had a talk and we had a trans couple, we had a former miss Gay US, miss Gay USA, drag queen, me, my pastor and we were talking and somebody asked me like, you know, and honestly, there were more people there than on Sunday, which is great. And somebody asked me. What do you say to someone who's obviously homophobic and espousing something that's homophobic? And it took me a really long time to come up with something that was church appropriate. And I'm also if if you know the Enneagram, I'm a type eight. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like very confrontational and just cut to it. Yeah. But then I just settled down on like saying, well, what are you afraid of? And like really asking that question because I think we need to push the envelope and ask more people, what are you afraid of? Because they don't really know what they're afraid of.

Britt East [00:44:55] Yeah. And it's, obviously a whole lot that has very little to do with us as individuals. They're just projecting things on us. They don't, in many cases don't know us. It's different if you're in a relationship that's a whole ball of wax, but if it's just a stranger or an acquaintance, then it's like it's just sheer projection. You know, like we talked about the beginning. People will have no idea. Like, most of the time I'm sitting around watching sports. You would have no idea based on my affectation that I'm doing that. If you live in contemporary US, you'd make assumptions that I'm sitting around watching musical theater, and I happen to be a sports geek. And like, I know everything about every soccer team on the planet. And so it's like, but people don't know that.

Kirk Barnett [00:45:34] Until an archetype. I'm excited. Yeah.

Britt East [00:45:36] People don't know that until they engage with me. And that's the beauty of human connection is the the the mysteries and the the, the complexities of our identities and how they're always evolving and they never quite fit into the boxes that we pretend to make them, to pretend to want to make them fit into. But I want to get back to your conference, because I know you have a special offer and a promo code. So will you walk us through that?

Kirk Barnett [00:45:59] Yeah. So, the website is sweet. Live out proud.org. And we've added a special coupon code where anybody that puts us in, it's not going quietly. One word. You'll get 10% off. Whoa. And honestly, like, it's me and Adam running the website, so if anybody wants to send a message and has any questions, they can just go in and email us. We'll answer. You can even see a question on any of the socials. That's awesome.

Britt East [00:46:36] I and we will put your handles in the the link in the show notes. But but it's great that you read the URL live because it's so easy to remember and it's not long and convoluted. So, you know what? I want to make it as easy as possible for people to find you. So live out proud.org is the event website, and, we'll put your handles and stuff in the show notes so people don't have to, you know, if you're in the car or something or listening and you don't have to jot it down, that's great. And so they if they if they have any troubles, they can contact you and you'll make sure that you fulfill the code and, and get them set up. That's a great discount. That's really cool.

Kirk Barnett [00:47:13] Yeah, absolutely.

Britt East [00:47:15] So I have a question for you. I kind of shared some of my lived experience at the beginning, or earlier in the episode, and it's been a long time. You know, I haven't even really been back to Tennessee since the early 90s. That's a whole nother show.

Kirk Barnett [00:47:30] What part of Tennessee.

Britt East [00:47:32] Nashville.

Kirk Barnett [00:47:34] Okay.

Britt East [00:47:34] And, you know what I found? Over the years, I've moved around a lot. And what I found over the years. And I'm in Seattle now, what I've found over years is that some folks in the queer community, can have some rather strange ideas about what life is like in either rural America, small town America, the American South, or what you might call red states. You know, and, because maybe they've never been there or haven't spent a lot of time there have been in relationship with people who live there. So what would you like the rest of the queer community to understand about living in a red state?

Kirk Barnett [00:48:09] Oh, Caroline. There's so much to say. I live in like a purple bubble. That's what I call it. You know Adam, he lives in Florida and he lives in Orlando, so he's in a blue bubble. And. What I found interesting is how much people can detach you from an issue. For instance, my family back home in Alabama, they were very supportive of me and my previous partner and I went to family Christmases, like to Gatlinburg and like stayed in the cabin with all the kids and stuff. But then when the Supreme Court ruling came down about gay marriage, they just hit the roof on Facebook and it threw me. I was like, we were literally just in a cabin with you, like, y'all know all of this with my kids in a cabin, like. And. So. I. What I would say is like. There's, like I said, there's so much to say. I'm just shocked at how people can detach you from the issue. Yeah. And. It's okay to feel. Feel something for us living here. Because we do put up with some shit there. And there are some of us that, like me that I'm like, say something to me, say please, say something. And then there's other people where there's actually, like, real trauma that's like, yeah, yeah, but I will tell you this, like growing up in Alabama and, about 2 or 3 times a year, I'll drive to Florida for whatever reason, and I'll go through Alabama. Sometimes I'll stay with friends and sometimes not. I haven't gotten this, haven't fixed this response in my body yet. But as soon as I hit the state line, I feel so much tension build up in my body. It is the most bizarre thing, like have to do some deep breathing. I have to like talk to, like even like last time there was some like inner child, like I'm talking to little Kirk while. So it is very much a real thing. and there's a lot of people that are dealing with it and I would say. That's really all I can say. Like, I want to say so much more and we got to have a whole fucking, yeah, whole episode.

Britt East [00:51:00] Maybe we will. Maybe we will. So, you know, I have, interest. It's so funny that you what you brought up. Because I have an interesting story as well. Like, people might make assumptions about me based on where I live, but they may not understand that the neighborhood that I live in, a suburb of Seattle, is filled with Trump supporters. So I've had physical altercations. I've had, you know, all sorts of verbal abuse hurled at me. And you think, oh, he's lives in Seattle. He's like, everything's easy. And it's just shows the complexity of our stories. Everybody has a story that's complex and deserves to be heard. And when we make assumptions, we're probably wrong and selling ourselves short because we're not getting giving ourselves the opportunity to to witness one another and to share in that experience. And so, you know, I too have lived, been in relationship with people with that cognitive dissonance that you describe, where it's like they really want to know you and they're genuine and it's real because you can't bullshit a gay guy. So it's real, and they really want to be a part of your life. And they would send you to a concentration camp tomorrow. Both things are true. And it is. It's bizarre. Baked my noodle.

Kirk Barnett [00:52:24] Like pride month is so weird for me because, you know, you see, people like last year it was railing against target and Reclaim the Rainbow and stuff. And I'm like, we just hung out exactly like you saw me. Like, I mean, my flame was high when we hung out. Like, I was like. It was like. Like we were vibe like, you know. Like it is the most bizarre thing to me, and I try and not go to the place of okay, so. They're just using me for my talent. I try and stay in the space of like, they genuinely care about me as a human, and they just don't have the mental connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, we're fun to hang out with. Like I'm a sales guy. So like, there was a guy that I worked with on a contract basis, and I made and I made him a lot of money with my sales. And then I see him come out and I'm like, okay, so did you just want me for my sales skills? And that's.

Britt East [00:53:30] Why I'm. No, no, no, I believe you're right. I mean, and you know, the the jaded, younger Brit would have thought they're just using you, but I experienced it for years at a company firsthand. It was located in rural Wisconsin, and I was working remote and would fly there a bunch. And, people would want to spend time with my husband and us together out in public explicitly. And I would I mean, it was almost cathartic. So coming to the realization that both things were completely true, they genuinely loved and the genuine love and affection for me, even within the lens of a professional relationship, the love, the professional love and respect and and, and all of that was true. Wanting to spin because I was real happy to pull back, but reaching for me, wanting to spend time for me. And what was also true, the cognitive dissonance was, was that, you know, like I said, they'd kick me off the island tomorrow without hesitating. And both things were equally true. And I don't have an answer for that, other than the constant wrestling with the complexity of human nature and how it's healed by loving relationships, not by withdrawing into silos.

Kirk Barnett [00:54:50] Yeah. It's, I've had that experience.

Britt East [00:54:54] But it's a mindfuck. And it's like when you're experiencing it because it's true. I mean, you know, but both things are true. They genuinely, in that moment, they genuinely have affection and have good feelings for you. And and I just assume they want to like they must. All aspects of them want to harm me. And that's actually can be kind of more confusing and it's more spiritually challenging to walk with. But I think my spirituality is that. And those moments were called to do that, that some problems are not meant to be solved, some problems are meant to be lived.

Kirk Barnett [00:55:28] Who?

Britt East [00:55:30] And there's dignity in just living with that, this dissonance, living with that struggle that I can't fix. I can't flip a light switch because I used to want to convince everybody. And it would be really annoying to me that somebody might have a different opinion in the world. But it's like, no, learning to live with love my limits and learning to love other people's limits and let it all be okay. And yes, I'm experiencing the pain. And maybe for this season, this relationship is worth that pain and maybe that season will change.

Kirk Barnett [00:56:03] Yeah, yeah.

Britt East [00:56:06] So at any rate, I could go on and on. Like you said, that's a whole it's a whole, other episode. So, Kirk, tell me, what gives you hope in this world?

Kirk Barnett [00:56:21] Whether you believe it or not, whether your listeners believe it or not. What gives me hope is how far we've come. I'll try to make this quick because I know we're getting up on time. I've been reading this book called The Secret City, and it's about Washington, D.C., and it talks about, like, the Lavender scare and all that. Basically, each chapter is a presidential term, and it talks about all the gay men that were included.

Britt East [00:56:44] That's really cool.

Kirk Barnett [00:56:45] That were integral parts of policy. Yeah. And, you know, the presidential like advisors and all that and how they got outed and how and those bitches were cut throat white gay code went out the door across political lines. But, I just think how far we've come from then, you know, and even, like, 20 years ago. That, you know. Had those guys been allowed to use their queer intuition, their queer power, whatever you want to call it. What would the world be like and how would it be different? Because they did have influence in high places. And if they hadn't had to worry about this, what magic would they have created? So the the fact that we have come so far to where we can be more open, I think it allows us to utilize our queer super power, if you want to call it that, to impact a world.

Britt East [00:57:43] So beautiful. Well, Kirk, I'm just so thrilled that I got to have you as a guest on the podcast today. Sounds like an amazing conference. I really hope our listeners check it out. Also, if you or somebody in a mixed orientation marriage, you're married to a woman now you're in the coming out process or you are just looking for extra experience, strength and hope. I, I, I hope that you check Kirk out on his socials and, see if you're a good fit for some coaching services. Because I'm sure you would be absolutely fabulous at that. And I'm just so thrilled to meet you. And, it sounds like an absolutely great event. So, you know, we're going to put all the links in the show notes. There's a great website out there. You have the special offer 10% off, for not going quietly. Kirk will help you get that fulfilled if you have any issues. Kirk, it was great to meet you. Thank you so much.

Kirk Barnett [00:58:35] It was nice to meet you and talk to you as well. Thank you.

Britt East [00:58:37] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I hope we get to do this again. Again sometime. Well, dear listener, you have made it through another hour of not going quietly. I so appreciate you and and all you give to the show. We would not be able to do this without your love and support. And you know, I'm just here cheering you on as you go about your lives living out proud, as Kurt might say. And, that's too good. I have to plagiarize it. I can't believe you did that off the cuff. That's crazy. That was touched by an angel moment. Yeah. And so and so I. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and check us out. We've got some fabulous future guests coming up. So until next time, we'll see you later. Thanks, everyone. Bye bye.

Britt East [00:59:22] You've been listening to Not going quietly with your host, Brit East. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. As we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. Check out our show notes for links, additional information, and episodes located on your favorite podcast platform.