Queer Books with Charlie Hunts

Britt East [00:00:02] Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast where we inspire growth, beat down biases and get into all sorts of good trouble with your host, Britt East. No topic is off limits as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. So get ready to join us for some courageous conversation, because not going quietly starts right now. Hey everyone, welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast for outraged optimists and heartbroken healers all over the world, where we surface life's searing truths in the name of radical togetherness. I'm your host, Britt East, and I have a fantastic, wonderful, marvelous featured guest today. So let's dive right in.

Charlie Hunts (he/him), caught the book bug as a motorcycle mechanic after an accident left him bedbound for a year after going back to school for his degree. Charlie's career began at two book publishers in San Francisco, before going on to craft brands in the sports, government and finance industries. He has a successful track record for making space for the Lgbtq+ community and industries, from sports to entertainment to fintech, including building the first bank account service for trans and non-binary customers in the US. Holy cow, Charlie, that's incredible. I want to hear more about that now.

In the face of a record number of book bans and anti LGBTQ legislation, he returned to the book world to open Charlie's Queer Books, Seattle's first queer bookstore in nearly 20 years and the only queer bookstore on the entire West Coast. The store has quickly become a hub of Seattle LGBTQ life, offering a safe space for queer authors to talk about their work, readers to explore their identities, and a host of community events with others who understand their lived experiences. Charlie Hunt, welcome to the podcast how the hell are you today?

Charlie Hunts [00:02:01] I'm awesome. It's another rainy day in Seattle, but all you know, it's what I just love. Yeah.

Britt East [00:02:08] There you go. But that's perfect for a bookstore owner. It's, like, cozy in your bookstore. Get out from the rain, you know, and. And enjoy. Good book. So, you know, Charlie's queer books originally started as a pop up and an online store. How did you come up with the original idea? For the whole concept. And why did you add a brick and mortar location?

Charlie Hunts [00:02:29] I was honestly just in a job that didn't feel, like I was contributing to what I was seeing around me. In this country. You know, there we've. I think it's no secret with the book bans and, anti LGBT legislation that, there's a lot happening right now to eradicate queer people from public life. And I wondered what I could do to be a part of community building or bringing some of that back into the forefront and, jumping back into books was kind of my way in it. I was originally just doing it as an online shop and a pop up at different Seattle markets. We, we got a, a second hand cart, like rolling cart. And then I built, like using old restaurant, like, discarded material into this, like, rolling disco cover, disco tile covered, mobile pop up thing that we could sell books from. And, we went to markets all over Seattle, to see if this is what people wanted, if there was, demand for this, if there was, if this was helpful, for the community and, also just something awesome to do on the weekends. And, when I say we my wife Madeline, has been a part of this since the beginning, for sure, fellow bookworm, for sure. And, it definitely got a response, I'll tell you that. Like, we had very little negativity. Stoked to say, at the markets. And it was just overwhelming to see the reaction from people, especially from parents of, of queer kids, older adults who wish that they saw these stories when they were growing up. The whole the whole gamut. And so, like some people were actually in tears at our little booth, middle of a middle of a Sunday market. And it just kind of grew from there very quick. When I say it quickly, I mean quickly, like, we started this in March of 2000, 23 of 2023. And we, signed a lease on this place in August and then opened in November. And here we are, about five months later. So, it's been a whirlwind. Something I did not anticipate being, you know, one year ago, but, it's, I wouldn't I wouldn't want anything.

Britt East [00:05:21] But one of the things I love about your story is that you're so entrepreneurial and so. So, motivated by cause and serving the community. And you've just been so smart about, you know, like you said, market testing. We all have maybe as queer people, different preconceived notions about what might happen and immediately think, okay, what could go wrong? How's this? You know, so you were so smart in what I'm hoping to tease out is, like you as a source of inspiration for our listeners all over the country and all over the world about, you know, finding agency where we are with our skill sets, learning and growing, but leveraging everything that we have and not feeling so like downtrodden and helpless all the time. So it's a really cool part of your story. And I love the idea. Like you have this DIY disco cart and stuff, so it is like eye catching and memorable. And you know, you made me think about one of the things we've talked a lot about on the show is, empowering straight parents to raise healthy queer children. Because obviously, even the most well-meaning straight parents are patently unqualified to raise healthy queer children in and of themselves because they don't have the requisite lived experience. And so here you are helping empower them by giving them access to the literature, to the self-help books, to to people and in this community space. Could you talk a little bit more about that?

Charlie Hunts [00:06:45] Yeah. And honestly, it's been, that's what I've seen for both straight parents of queer kids and also, trans parents of kids, new parents. So, like, you know, trying to find the language to describe a lived experience to someone who has no, who just doesn't share that. So whether that's parent, child or child's parents, you have been surprised. I didn't expect that part, but, that it could go both ways. There's been an explosion in children's books and, young adult books. Middle grade books. In the past five years, at most, it's rare. It's relatively new. But, in the amount of queer stories that are being, represented in books and, certainly we have a long way to go, but I've got I've been able to find books that have, a trans man, pregnant or a non-binary parent or, a lot of non-binary children's books, books that talk picture books that talk about, and like board books, which is like square one for kids reading, talking about pronouns. So, there's, there's a so much out there now that makes me incredibly optimistic and even like sex health books that don't involve gender at all. It's just, and like all the illustration is, is not connected to a gendered body. So it's, there's so much that you could find there. And we get some pretty specific requests from different family structures. And even there still, when I say there's still work to be done, I mean, not only with like more representation with intersex asexuality, two spirit ness, like all the, other aspects of identity and intersectionality. But, there even just like I remember in the beginning, we were getting a lot of requests for books about different art, about difference. So, for example, you could there's a lot of children's books out there that talk about like this. Usually it's an animal. In the context of an animal, this bird is different. And they got bullied or they got teased for being different and they came together and like some something happens to make it all better in the end. And then, like, everyone lived happily ever after and no one talked about it ever again. But let's not have the bully part. Like, can we also just have it be, a part of the story? Like, there's still a place for learning how to cope with that or being, you know, knowing that that is a part of life and whatnot. But let's just also have the difference be difference and that's it. Like, that's not the main driver of the story. There are children's books that are getting better about, depicting different family structures without calling it out. So like, they just this family just happens to have two dads and it just is not a plot point. But, you know, they're we're getting there. But I'm, I'm very pleased with the. Amount of quality children's books in middle grade, coming out. And I hope that it trickles up. Yeah, that's all I'll say is the thing, because the explosion is happening with younger. Yeah. I need it to translate to stock.

Britt East [00:10:40] Cool. Like you said, it's a lot of optimism, lots of room for growth. And I love that. It's like, queer stories can also be purely about joy. They don't always have to be about a catharsis, although obviously that's important too. There will always be room for that. But we can have joyful, purely joyful experiences.

Charlie Hunts [00:10:57] And oh, Britt, like the number, the number one question I get asked for by adults who are looking at our literary fiction section is do you have any where the person doesn't die at the end? Or that it's not make me cry. And I'm like, especially when they write a classic and I'm like, yeah, you know, there's not there's a lot of new fiction coming out that, that has that. But not a lot of older fiction got published that imagines that verse.

Britt East [00:11:25] Oh yeah. We've, we've got we've got a lot of work to do. So you've got this successful cart and you're getting this buzz, and people are thrilled to see you and everything. So then what makes you think, okay, I'm going to be so audacious that I'm going to actually open up an actual physical store, a bookstore, in 2024 when there's nothing like it on the West Coast, as you said, nothing in Seattle for 20 years. Was that part of your plan from the beginning? And you're just kind of workshopping with the cart? Or are you just like, oh my gosh, I had no idea. Let's open a store. This is so cool. What happened?

Charlie Hunts [00:11:56] I mean, it was always in the back of my mind, but it just felt, I mean, I, I think we've all heard the narrative that bookstores, you know, you can't survive. It's. The competition's too stiff, you know, and that's just considering a general bookstore. Never mind a quote unquote niche bookstore or a specific bookstore like us. But, you know, there's there were a couple things that made me believe that we could still make it work. Part of it was just seeing other bookshops around the world who are that are queer, such as gays. The word in London survive for a very long time. In the US, Giovanni's Room in Philadelphia and, little district in Washington DC have been around forever. So it gives you hope that, like, okay, maybe this can work. And there's nothing no other industry like bookselling where there is, where where shop owners are. Very transparent and giving with information. So there's a lot of, information shared. There's a lot of advice. There's a lot of, shoulders to cry on. But they, they, we help each other like no other industry. And like, granted, I was immediately cut throat industries before, but, there's a camaraderie and like us versus them than being, the a word, mentality, I think so, you know, there if there's any silver lining to, to Amazon wiping out most of the industry. That is it. Where we now we probably work together more than we ever have. The trade associations are very strong and supportive with resources for new booksellers. But also, you know, when I was writing the business plan, I kept turning to my wife and saying, this seems to just all signs keep pointing to opening a store and, where, so I just decided to give the business plan a shot with that frame of mind. And then I shopped it around to a lot of people. So, who who have who either work with city programs here in Seattle, to help new business owners, or to, trusted friends who have, even helped with, in, in tech, helped, not me, but other, startups with like, seed money. So I was like, well, if there's going to be, a tough cookie, that I need to like, satisfy, it will be this, like these people, and they all thought it was a good fit. So I was like, oh, okay. No one's telling me that this is a dumb idea yet. And so I kept going, and, I found, I was able to get in contact with, couple of those people who had queer bookstores back in the day here in Seattle. So, there's a few names that come to mind. There's, a bookstore that was explicitly like only queer books, and it was called Beyond the Closet. And.

Britt East [00:15:38] They closed something like that. Yeah.

Charlie Hunts [00:15:40] Or, yeah, like in the early 2000. So they made it for a long time, but they were around for a while. And. And then Bailey Coie is another bookshop that comes to mind, even though they had. Not queer books too. They are still today seen as like that was the queer bookstore. And they were in the.

Britt East [00:16:06] Game of books. And I moved to Seattle in 2000. So I got to experience both of those stores and remember them fondly long after they closed. And then part of why I was so excited to learn about your store. So you're off and running. Oh, and by the way, I just you're like giving a blueprint for entrepreneurial queer people. And I just love it. So I hope people are taking notes because you're laying out how to do it tonight. Again, like I said earlier, bogged down in despair and hopelessness because it's so easy when it feels like society's oriented against you. But you're you're doing a really great job, I think, of empowering and inspiring folks. So, I'm really excited about it now. So you've got this idea. Nobody's laughing at you or making fun of you. You're thinking, okay, I'm gonna plow forward. So then you have to come up with a design concept for the look and feel of the store. And I bring this up because it's so striking. It's such a warm, welcoming, wonderful space. And you also, it's no secret this is just objectively true. Have the very best bathroom of any bookstore in town. I don't I don't know how you've done this. You don't know where I mean, everybody's talking about. So tell us some about the design concept and the execution, what it looks like, what it feels like to be in the space.

Charlie Hunts [00:17:16] We wanted it to be queer adjacent. So we wanted, like, you know, that term dog whistle, where certain groups can understand what you're, what's being said, without it being like, said out loud. And, to me, we, we wanted to do this space that didn't depend on rainbows and unicorns, which are great. Those are great. But, not something that I necessarily wanted to lead with. And so we thought, well, what's, what's some, what's something that makes you think about the queer community without necessarily saying it. And, and Palm Springs came to mind also because of its it's got that. Yeah, 50s, 60s vibe still like, it's kind of a timeless thing now. And we thought it would be great to have branding and a feeling that was bright, optimistic, open, and and a little timeless. And so we found this, these great partners, to help us create the, the branding. It's a studio, a local studio called people. People. And I put your best gay on. Oh, I did, so, Noah and I partnered on, you know, how we wanted to make our own spin on it? And, we landed with this pink and what we affectionately call blue. Purple. Just not quite purple, not quite blue. And, some, like, orange splashes here and there. And, if you want to see pictures of the of the spot, you folks can go to, Charlie's careerbuilder.com or our Instagram is at Charlie Square Books and see pictures of this because, the space we took down walls. For those who don't know, we're actually in a house, so we wanted people to feel at home. It just so happened to be we're in a home, from like that was built in 1903 or something, and, it's we took down walls. We made sure that all the bookcases had were open on the sides. All to create this space where you felt like you could take up space, that you could just be in, relax. And it wasn't going to be dark and cramped, like, most bookstores tend to be designed. And, we wanted a lot of natural light in here, and, and we wanted it to still have some comforts of a bookstore. So we put, like, wood flooring in and things like that. But we were describing the bathroom. We found a swan, sink faucet fixture and that kind of just. We just went wild after that. We've got flamingo wallpaper, ostrich feather, lamp, fixture and, all kinds of stuff like that. And, we when we had the Seattle Times here for our grand opening, they ended up writing a whole paragraph about it at the top of the article and saying that it was the best bookstore bathroom in Seattle. And I you know what you always say? You make it to the newspaper and got to say, I didn't anticipate it being for that reason, but, I'll take it we're making T-shirts with that.

Britt East [00:20:56] And what a way to. The whole bathroom controversy queer people are facing is like, let's own it. We're getting the best gay on this in town. The best gay is going to do their magic. And we're going to we're going to transform bathrooms. You'll never want to go into a, a regular old bathroom again.

Charlie Hunts [00:21:13] Exactly. Yeah. And also, you know, we know there's, we wanted to really make the bathroom, something special because, this might be a little crude, but I think there's that popular, knowledge out there that, like, whenever you go into a Barnes and Noble, like, you immediately have to go to the bathroom. And so we're like, well, if that's going to be people's experience here in the space, why not just make it fun?

Britt East [00:21:37] So, and one of the reasons I want to bring it up is because I think that's what I was so surprised about was the vibe. I was surprised about how joyful a space it would be. You know, I, I we all have preconceived notions. The bookstore could be, many different things. Whether it's a corporate feeling like you're describing Barnes and Noble or, or, some of the previous bookstores were very elegant. Like Bailey, coy was small but really elegant and pristine. This is just unabashedly joyful. And there's such a subversive, transgressive message there relative to where we are currently today. We're we're recording this in late March of 2024, where there's all sorts of social pressure orienting us toward sadness. Like I keep describing, orienting towards, you know, deflating our sense of self and, our agency. And as soon as you walk in, it's like, aside from the fact that all the inventory is, is, telling our stories, most often by us, it's also, just the place makes you smile. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charlie Hunts [00:22:46] That means a lot to hear. Yeah. We just want people to, like. I want you to walk through the door and like your shoulders. Like your shoulders can drop. You can take a deep breath. There's less that you have to. You don't have to, like, explain yourself. Or. Worry about getting misgendered, or you do have to use the bathroom or like, you, are looking for a specific thing, or you know, that you're either you would normally be a little shy to ask about or something like that. Like, we just want to provide a space where you can just be. So we have two floors, actually at the house. And, the first floor is all retail. The second floor has, like reading nooks and tables to work at, like a meeting room that can be private. And so we try to make space so that even if you're just a kid who needs to do their homework, at a third place or, we just want someplace to. We have folks who just come over to read, you know, those kinds of things. Or do.

Britt East [00:23:59] That's wonderful. Let's talk more about that. I don't think many of our listeners will know the term, third space. So could you define that, tease it out first what it means to you talk about some of your I mean, a lot of people would be like, why are you having a podcast about a bookstore? I don't live there. How am I going to get there? What do I mean? There's so many different ways to engage with a bookstore, whether it's online, with e-commerce, whether it's when you're visiting, you know, it's not just about purchasing a book, you're hosting events, you're having, you know, very speakers and authors come in, like you said, you have space, safe spaces for kids to be themselves when they do their homework, as opposed to fending off society as they're trying to learn math. And it's like there's just so much to it. I think people don't take the time to think through. Could so could you describe some of that?

Charlie Hunts [00:24:43] Yeah. So a third space is, a place that isn't work or home. And it's a place that you would typically think of like a coffee shop, or a library or, a theater or something like that, or some place that you would hang out, that isn't work or home. And there are a there's a shocking lack of third spaces for queer people that doesn't involve nightlife or alcohol, which makes it very difficult if you're not 21 yet, or you're sober, or you just like to go to bed early, you know, like there's or you just want someplace during the day. And so we, we knew that in our business plan like that, it would be smart to have events and things like that to keep people coming to a bookstore, because even you're even your most loyal customer is going to buy, like, one book a week at most. Right? So, we needed other reasons for people to, to come visit and. That. So that was one reason we thought about it, but the other was in doing the research for the business plan. We saw there was actual statistics and requests from the community for this kind of thing. And, that there was actually a very good reason that we were wondering about this, and it wasn't like we were missing something. There legitimately is a lack of those places anywhere, not even, just like a, a Seattle thing. And so, we figured that bookstores are our absolutely popular third places. There's even here in Seattle, a bookstore called Third Place Books. And, so we knew that even if we didn't try to make it an event space or to serve the community in that way, and we just focused on books, it didn't matter if that was our intention, it would end up being a community gathering space no matter what. So, that's what had us definitely lean fully into it. The types of events we can do here. Sure, we have our author events and and signings and things like that and readings of of of different things. But we also do non book related things. So we have we did like an intro to Dungeons and Dragons. So we did a craft craft night. We did we're going to do a comedy show, in, in a week or two here, where we have book clubs and we have writing workshops, of course, but we're also going to have just like, trans mask meetup in a, in next month. Or, sober groups use it to our, our private meeting space. The dikes on bikes did, stuff first aid training here. Like there's there's so much that we can do that that speaks to the community just wanting to either do something wholesome and nice, try something new, learn something, or connect with other people who share something they have in common. We're going to do friendship speed dating. Like, there's there's all the. Yeah, the possibilities are endless. And we're able to do it because, the community shows up for them. They sell out every time we do something right. Our space is not big enough, to handle the demand. And, we also have amazing, passionate customers who are willing to moderate, or facilitate these groups, for, you know, in exchange for store credit or, we just let them have all the ticket sales, so.

Britt East [00:28:37] It and you do a great job on your website outlining this and showcasing this. So we'll put that URL again in the show notes. Charlie mentioned it previously, so you don't have to jot it down in a hurry. Everything links to all the socials will be in the show notes. So so definitely check it out. I think one of the, you know, maybe it's an ulterior motive or unintended consequence of what you're describing is that it creates almost a, a subconscious catharsis or contrast when you, as a queer person, are moving through society, going about your normal day. Not necessarily, consciously considering the pressures we face. And as a matter of course. And then all of a sudden, you step into this land of Oz, this wonderland where those pressures don't exist, and in fact, the opposite exists. You are affirmed and celebrated because of who you are. It's not even a vacuum or a void. It's not even just the absence of pressure. You actually celebrated, I mean, directly and indirectly. And I think when people feel that it might, they might crave more of it. And then the ripple effects of they create spaces to, to to be that change and to mirror what you've done. And then all of a sudden we have more and more spaces where queer people can go and be themselves.

Charlie Hunts [00:29:50] Hey, that's the goal. I can't do it by myself. But even just not even the business, but even just being, a visible trans adult, is is super important to me. So even if, like, there was this, family who came in the other week, and, the mom told me that, you know, we have a trans daughter who's like, gosh, she couldn't have been more than, like, six. And, and so we make sure to bring her here so that she can see another trans adult, who is happy and healthy and thriving. And I was so blown away by that. And then the if they were getting ready to leave, and she runs up to the door and runs up to the desk and goes, hi, I'm trans too. Okay. My. And then right, just like as if it was, she was just telling me her favorite color, like it was nothing. And so, I want to, create. More opportunities for things like that. And just by in our very existence, we get to do that because you're right. You don't. I think that's what's. Insidious about what's happening in this country. Is that you. Even in a place like Seattle, you you run into those things, and. You know, it's it's it's pretty wild. You know, I will say that, you know, it doesn't matter if you're in a a liberal spot, quote unquote or not. You know, when we were shopping around for places to have our store, there were folks in certain neighborhoods who made it, very clear that we would not be welcome there. And, to our faces. So, like, it wasn't even just, it was very, it was not, it was they had no shame, in, in expressing those things to us. And so, it doesn't matter where you are, it's it, it that that is something that everyone's.

Britt East [00:32:04] Kind of just settled on the neighborhood then. So for those who haven't been to Seattle in a while or have never been to Seattle, obviously in general we we maybe lean more liberal politically. You might make all sorts of assumptions about that. And like Charlie was alluding to, that doesn't mean that we're free as queer people from harassment or prejudice or bias or bigotry just because we live in, quote unquote, a blue state or liberal city. There used to be, a neighborhood called Capitol Hill, which obviously still exists, that, was kind of known as the gay ghetto using language of that time. And but, you know, the gays are kind of a diaspora now, and many folks in the queer community live in all sorts of different places, even within Seattle. So, you're in the Fremont neighborhood. What it describe that neighborhood to our listeners and how did you choose it? What? It's a what has it been like? What is it like for you as a, as a small business owner and as a queer person to be there?

Charlie Hunts [00:33:04] Well, I think you you really touched on something with how spread out. The queer community here is here is in Seattle. Honestly, that, I was shocked to learn that it's the third highest. Like he's like per cap of queer people in the country. I think we're tied with San Francisco. Something like that. It's it's Fockers, like, only behind. Yeah. Like Boston and Cambridge and, and I guess SF will be, will be second, but, but we're all spread out and and so that that really spoke to me in a way that we needed spaces outside of Cap Hill, which has still has it's still very much looks like the neighborhood, but, it's become, like a wealthier neighborhood. It's a lot of bars. And so it attracts like a much younger crowd. And so if you have a family or if you just that's not your scenery, can't afford it, you're going to live elsewhere in the city. And also, selfishly, I live on the North End, so like, I wanted to be closer. But so is Capitol Hill. If you picture a map, it just think like, kind of near downtown, a little south, and a little an a little east where we are is on the other side of Lake Union. And so we're technically we're in a like, like central, more central location. When you think about a radius of the city, and we're way more accessible to people who live in on the north side. And Fremont is like a, I guess the hippie kind of spot. It's kooky. It's got, huge cement troll underneath a bridge, that's clutching a.

Britt East [00:35:08] They took down the statue, Allen. And they didn't they? Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay?

Charlie Hunts [00:35:14] No, it's still here. It's definitely still here. And. Weird. There's a giant statue of Lenin that someone who lived in this neighborhood, somehow bought after the fall of the Soviet era. So, and then had it in their backyard, and then they passed away. And so then they gave it to the they had it in their will to give it to the town or to the neighborhood. So anyway, it's weird. And they call this neighborhood the center of the universe. And it used to be home to a famous clown. Like, it's a weird place, but a lot of people say that it still hasn't necessarily like. Yeah, there there is a Google building and there is a, Tableau building and, I have like 1 or 2 other Adobe has a building here in Fremont. But it still feels like it hasn't been touched by tech necessarily as much as other neighborhoods have. And so it. When we looked around it at different places, we were also just keeping an eye for where we're queer people already gathering. And Fremont was like, we were just in a we were just hanging out, watching this, this the street in front of this property to see what it was like. And it was like, oh. Queer. Queer. Queer. Queer. Not queer. Queer, queer. Not queer. And so we figured all this could be a pretty sustainable place because it had a great mix of tourists, locals and, yeah, folks who lived in the neighborhood. So, so it was a it was a good. So let's talk.

Britt East [00:36:58] About let's talk some about your e-commerce site. I, like I said, alluded to earlier, we have listeners all over the world, all over the US. And while you don't ship everywhere in the world, you ship a lot of places. And so, I suspect and you'll correct me if I'm wrong. I suspect you ship almost everywhere in the US, in the continental US. So, it's not like you have to visit Seattle or come to Seattle to support Charlie's queer books. You don't have to order from Jeff Bezos or whomever you. There's lots of options out there for you. And Charlie is one of those. In fact, that's how I first got to know Charlie a little bit was through e-commerce. I was looking for a specific book, trying to avoid the usual suspects. I had learned about Charlie's queer books and had that in the back of my mind as like, oh, this is a queer person I can support when I have a book that the that he might have and, and stuff. And so, I went on the e-commerce site. I actually did not find it. So I emailed you and then you special ordered it. And so I just want to like, just be open about that because I don't want people to get discouraged. It's like there's all sorts of I had a fabulous experience, customer experience with you. You got back to me right away. You ordered the book, I dropped by and picked it up, and it was just seamless and wonderful. So there's all sorts of ways to engage with your business outside of the brick and mortar location. So would you tell someone about your website?

Charlie Hunts [00:38:13] Yeah. The, the. The beauty of the site is that we can, share the curated, selection that we have with the country so that if you wanted to find, a fantasy book that had, queer characters as the protagonists, we've got you covered. You don't have to go digging everywhere in order to find that, or discover new things or see what magazines we have that are very difficult to get in the US. A lot of stuff we get imported from the UK because it's just not available in the US anymore. And then we also just have a bunch of kooky, goods made by queer people. Yeah, a lot of fun sticker to house goods and things like that. So, not only when you buy from us, are you supporting us in our ability to, to be present and also to, to help out, in real life, but also you're then supporting, like, let's say you buy it's like stickers or bookmarks or whatever. You're then supporting that queer artist as well. But when we were, when we were starting, I felt a lot of guilt about opening up a brick and mortar store in a place that is more friendly to queer people. It felt like. No, that's needed in whatever place. Not Seattle, but. Honestly like the the website, the store, they help each other so that we can we can exist and and And mail to places that might want that. We made sure that, like, our name is, like, when we email you, it's just Charlie's. When if I text you about a book that's coming in, it's just Charlie's. If, I, if we are, if we're mailing something, it's just Charlie's, like, serve it that way. Just out of an abundance of caution for folks. But we, it allows us to serve more people, in a very authentic way. Unlike some other websites out there, remain nameless. I, RuPaul.

Britt East [00:40:37] Well, like you said, the even if you're local, they work in concert and it's one customer experience, and sometimes it'll be in the store and then event. Sometimes it'll be purchasing a book in the store, sometimes it'll be searching for stuff online. But the magic of the independent small bookstore is the curation, is the is the point of view that the staff and the owners have to cull through all the books out there and present to the customer. Here's what we think is important and of value to you. Would you talk some about that curation process and even but maybe back up and say like, what is a queer book? What does that designation even mean?

Charlie Hunts [00:41:15] That's a that's a great point. Yes. So, you know, you'll have I think the magic of, of the bookstore is what you said. It's, it's that special 1 to 1 tailored recommendation for you. And space to have conversation about what you like and what we can recommend so that you're not sifting or going through books that you didn't like in order to find one really great one. And the fact that, like you emailed me and you guys are, but it's me. It's the store owner who's replying back to you and do placing the order and following up. And like, you're not going to get that with a traditional, e-commerce site. And so, it's very hands on. We get a lot of emails from people looking for recommendations, and then, we end up, most times actually adding it to our inventory. Generally not even just for that one person, because you've helped us discover something cool. And I think that's part of part of the curation. So a queer book to me, you know, like there are some queer bookstores who will only have queer authors and, the subject can be queer or not. There are some who need both to be true, and there are some who, just need it's a and or situation. Right now we are we're technically and or because I for several reasons, but I would say 99% of our books are written by queer people. And, but all of it, you know, it's got a, queer protagonist, and you know that they're not just a back, a back story or something added on. We have every genre so that that you would expect in a regular bookstore. So we've got cooking, we've got crafts, we've got spirituality, nonfiction, memoir, sci fi or all that stuff. And. To us. It's either, written by a queer person. So, like, in the case of cooking, the subject matter may not be, even though we do have a cookbook that's called Get My Swiss Charts to Broadway. So that is definitely both in subject matter and in the author. But, in those cases, it would be the author who's representing the identity. And the matter is the subject matter is not necessarily, or it's, you know, like, I can't prove that this author was quick because they've passed away and they were writing in the early 1900s. And we can extrapolate, we can read between the lines a lot or, you know, maybe they left some letters to a lover that we can then go, okay, but if you have someone like Octavia Butler who, you know, was a Seattle, Seattle light, but she was incredibly private with her, with her private life. So, like, no one knew anything about who, you know, who she had relationships with, if she was even interested in that, anything like that. So. We only carry Octavia Butler books that we're dealing with a lot of awesome gender stuff, in trans type themes, because and we don't carry the hits that of hers because they don't deal with those. So, but you have Walt Whitman. You know, like, he's definitely safe to put in the bookstore. But, you know, like, a lot of these authors just didn't come out or they couldn't come out. They didn't want to come out. And so I feel still a little uncomfortable slapping, everybody in here is queer. For authors, because we just can't. I mean, that's also, I don't I don't like outing people. You know, it's. Yeah.

Britt East [00:45:18] And labels are contrived. At the end of the day, they're like, hats that we put on in a given circumstance, and they don't really reflect the breadth and depth of our, of our human complexity. So it's even just a little contrived anyway. Even people who identify as queer might feel limited by that term queer author or what have you. And so I really respect that. You know, one of the things that you alluded to, I just want to call out was the fact that you and I have a relationship in that I, I, and this is only possible with, you know, businesses like your small, independent, stores where it's like I went to your website, didn't find what I was looking for. Everything was fine. It was just like, oh, well, maybe he doesn't have a book, so I'll email him just in case. I emailed the store happened to be you, and then I went in the store, picked it up, and we chatted a little bit. And then I invited you on the podcast. So it's like, all of a sudden we have a relationship where that's not going to happen. And, Walmart necessarily, you know, at least with the owner or certainly, you know, and so it's like one of the really great things about and maybe again, ripple, subtle ripple effects, unintended consequences about as customers engaging with, independently owned, queer owned businesses is all of a sudden you are expanding your horizons, but also literally your social network, your support network.

Charlie Hunts [00:46:39] I joked that this was the most expensive way to make friends.

Britt East [00:46:42] Not really the riskiest of us. Yeah, that's.

Charlie Hunts [00:46:47] What you're right. Yes, I love that.

Britt East [00:46:49] So what's next for Charlie's books? I mean, I know I don't want to put pressure on you because I know this is all happened so fast, but even in the near term, like, what are your some of your audacious plans and big hairy, audacious goals? And what are you what are you thinking?

Charlie Hunts [00:47:02] Oh, man, I mean.

Britt East [00:47:03] Oh my gosh, we're.

Charlie Hunts [00:47:04] In a franchise. I'm like, look like, whoa, dude.

Britt East [00:47:08] Simmer down.

Charlie Hunts [00:47:10] Yeah. Yeah, I have the bad ass, but. Right, right. The first six months. All right. But, no, we're going to we're starting to attract, some pretty big name authors. And hopefully we can announce some of those soon. But this summer will be huge for us. Summers are always gorgeous in Seattle, and, so we're going to do a lot of outdoor events. A lot of this will be our very first pride. So to do all kinds of crazy stuff. We're, we have Haley Jacobson coming to town in June. Who wrote Old Enough? And, to celebrate the release of the book on paperback. She's coming back to town, and we're going to do a pretty huge event that, involves, friendships be doing. So putting a twist on regular author events. In May, we're doing a book launch, for an author who happens to be local, and the book is called Summer Love Strategy. It takes it's a way, but that's a romance to take place in, in a high school. So we're going to do prom. And there's another book release that's called by an author named Chuck tingle, and it's called Bear Your Gaze. And so we're going to do a murder mystery party. So we're trying to, you know, make it fun for authors as well.

Britt East [00:48:38] Awesome, awesome. So, I just want to thank you for being on the podcast. It was so wonderful to meet you and talk with you. I encourage everybody here in Seattle to go check out your store. Or if you're visiting Seattle, check out Charlie's Queer Books awesome e-commerce site. You do a wonderful job with that. I that's my day job working in e-commerce and digital marketing, so I know a little thing about it. You do a wonderful job. You're so responsive with questions over email. So I just encourage people to check out your events, your books go online. We'll post all the socials and the links to your website. Thanks again Charlie. Just so wonderful to meet you.

Charlie Hunts [00:49:18] Oh, it's such a pleasure to talk to you again. And, can't wait to see you in the shop soon. But thank you for having me. And yeah, if anyone wants to learn more about us, we're everywhere is, we're at at Charlie's Queer Books.

Britt East [00:49:31] Awesome, awesome. Well, there, listeners, you have done it. You've made it through another episode of Not Going Quietly. Thank you so much for joining us on this wild ride. We could not do it without your support, and it was so wonderful to be with you today. So until next time. Bye bye. Thanks. You've been listening to not going quietly with your host, Brit East. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. As we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. Check out our show notes for links. Additional information and episodes located on your favorite podcast platform.