Queer Career Coaching with Kyle Elliott

Britt East [00:00:02] Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast where we inspire growth, beat down biases and get into all sorts of good trouble with your host, Britt East. No topic is off limits as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. So get ready to join us for some courageous conversation, because not going quietly starts right now. Hey everyone, welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast for outraged optimists and heartbroken healers all over the world, where we surface life's searing truths in the name of radical togetherness. I'm your host, Brett East, and I have a wonderful featured guest today. I cannot wait for you to meet him. So let's dive right in. Dr. Kyle Elliott is the founder and career coach behind caffeinatedkyle.com. His expertise is in Silicon Valley and high tech. As a result of working with Dr. Elliott, senior managers and executives, including me, have landed jobs at meta, Amazon, Google, and nearly every other tech giant you can imagine. Kyle, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?

Kyle Elliott [00:01:12] I am doing so well. I'm excited to be here. I think this is the first week I don't have travel in the last like month and a half, so it's nice to just be grounded here. I'm in Santa Barbara, California and just be grounded that we can be speaking with you to start my week.

Britt East [00:01:26] Yeah, well, it's been way too long. I'm so excited to hear. I'm thrilled to dive in. Something I've always wanted to know about you. Why are you so caffeinated?

Kyle Elliott [00:01:35] Oh, God. I went up to middle school, I drank coffee, there was a Starbucks, the like Vons in the grocery store on the way to school. So I'll just stop and get it. I've worked since a young age, and then one of the things I like fine was Starbucks, so it's fine in middle school. That's why I can afford this treat for myself. And now that's lasted until now. Just always having a little treat. Caffeinated myself and my clients and their stories and their careers. And I think it runs in my family, too. Both my parents are coffee people. My grandparents are coffee people. So I think it's just a familial thing as well.

Britt East [00:02:07] That's so funny. Well, I want to start with the, the, the big question that I bet you get all the time. I know I certainly hear about it kind of tangentially in my role as a hiring manager or, in the, in the corporate world is what does a career coach do? Like what is a career coach? And tell us some about how you got your start.

Kyle Elliott [00:02:26] Yeah, my partner and I share a ride. So I think a lot of Uber or we share cars. I take a lot of Uber. Right. So I've had a lot of time to think about this. And every time I share that, that's interesting. So you're a recruiter and or a model of fruit? I work with job seeker. So typically when someone's looking for a job, they reach out to me and I might be sure it's the exact job I want. In tech, I mostly work with tech executives or I don't know what I want, Kyle, but I'm 30, 40, 50, I have experience I can't start my career over, help me figure out what I want, and then we go land that job. So everything from figuring out what you want, your resume, cover letter, LinkedIn, interviewing, salary negotiation kind of start to finish. I'm not cheerleader that coach. Some people feel like I'm their therapist. Really that person to be there for them until they land that dream job.

Britt East [00:03:15] Well, you know, as I alluded to at the beginning, I'm a former client of yours then, and I think, you do a lot more than people might imagine. And, you know, I'm suspect you in addition to, like, you're saying, interview coaching and maybe career placement, there's probably some mentoring thrown in. You said some therapy, I there maybe some executive coaching. Presentation coaching. It's like, where does it end?

Kyle Elliott [00:03:42] Yeah. And that's the question a lot of people are like, oh, should I be discussing this here or is this more for my therapist or my past or whoever that says I? And there are certain topics that are beyond my, competency, but a lot of stuff comes up. We spend 40, 60, 80 hours a week at work, so anything can come up during these sessions. Oftentimes the resume is just kind of on the surface or the career decisions on the surface underneath. That's how do I want to spend my days, how am I going to support my family and my children? There's a lot of bigger, deeper questions that come up beyond just how do I find that job?

Britt East [00:04:15] Yeah, absolutely. For those people watching the YouTube, version of this podcast, you might see what I'm about to refer to. But for those of you on the audio, only Kyle's got a sign over his shoulder that says, work hard and be nice to people. What does that mean?

Kyle Elliott [00:04:33] Yeah. Oh, God. My mom and I. Fun fact we were I used to live in the Bay Area of California, and like 7 or 8 years ago, we were in this coffee shop, and my mom's like, I love that sign. That's my motto. And I asked them where they got it and they had a custom made. Well, fast forward a few years and I saw that target signed up getting this. My mom has a matching sign in her office, and I put a lot of my work with people, like putting in that intentional effort to lay on that job, figure out their career, improve their leadership or communication skills, bolster their confidence. It's putting that intentional work in and then being nice along the way as well. A lot of students I work with are focused on social impact, making a difference in the world. My therapist does not like the sign, though. She said, Kyle, we're trying to get you to not work hard. I'm a recovering perfectionist, so she's like, maybe it's work easy and be nice to people. Maybe it's work. Softly. So she one of my assignments from her oven. Yeah, that's to remake that side.

Britt East [00:05:30] For me.

Kyle Elliott [00:05:30] To be more in alignment with where I am. Yeah. In my in my life.

Britt East [00:05:34] Yeah. Yeah. But you are an interesting combo, I have to say, of, like, where you are no nonsense and don't take any guff, but you're really kind in a lot of people it's like kind of one or the other. They tell themselves. It's like, oh yeah, I'm a nice guy, but mobile. But no, like, you're one of the kindest people I've ever met, but you don't take any shenanigans. I can speak for personal experience.

Kyle Elliott [00:05:56] Thank you. I appreciate that one of my mentors, Jill Katz, she's like, Kyle's going to hold you against the wall until you, like, address the space nicely, but he's still going to hold you against the wall and say, we're going to deal with this and navigate. Yeah. And I find people need that. They need someone in their life to kind of hold them accountable, can uncover those kind of deep questions that they don't have answers to and do it in a direct, compassionate, caring way. And that's my goal of.

Britt East [00:06:21] Working with people. You know what? This question is going to sound a little funny, but I believe in, you have to see it to be it. And so one of the things I'd like to do with some of our guests who have, a really, rich background and, in terms of educational training and expertise is kind of, showcase that slightly. You do a wonderful job on your website with that. You have one of my favorite websites of anybody I've worked with, and I would like for you to just kind of tell your story about how you got became a career coach, maybe include some of your educational credentials, not to prove yourself, but so other people can be inspired that they could be the next Kyle.

Kyle Elliott [00:06:58] Yes, I love sharing my story as a career coach. I'm always interested how people got into what they do, and for me, it's interesting as well. I started on Fiverr. I literally charged $5 to review a resume or your LinkedIn about section. I would write at and if I could do like for an hour, I made 20 bucks. Fiverr took their cut. So I made like $15 an hour, which when you're in college, this was 2013. 2014 was impressive. And my dad, he's like, okay, now what? And every time out a weight loss. He suggested doubling my price. So so from 5 to 10, 10 to 20. I got a lot of clients on Craigslist, Facebook at the time, and it just kept growing. And maybe six years into this, I decided to leave my full time job to dedicate 1% of my energy and effort to this and found out I really have this passion for coaching. I mean, I had wanted to help people, maybe run a hospital, run a nonprofit, do fundraising. And then I realized there's this way where I could help even more people by working with these leaders and over the last 4 or 5 years, really switched to just coaching these executives who are making a difference now in the world. And I love learning. So I've been learning a lot along the way too.

Britt East [00:08:11] Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really impressive. I mean, you had such vision as a student, you were able to leverage that into, a career business, a full time job, the convergence of all those skills that entrepreneurship, the education and training in your specific area of expertise. I mean, that's really impressive. And I think you're going to inspire a lot of people in the audience here. So what kind of people do you work with? You've kind of like talked about alluded to a little bit. Tell us some more about who would be a great client for Kyle.

Kyle Elliott [00:08:40] So the demographic is typically senior managers and executives in tech, Silicon Valley, these other really competitive spaces. But the overarching umbrella is typically people are making a change. And it's not someone like, oh, I'm a VP of product at meta. I want to be a VP of product at Amazon. Those people are lovely and I can help them, but it's really people making a change. Maybe their confidence is in the way communications and the way they're stuck somewhere and they say, I want something different, but I don't know what it is or how to get there. And there's something blocking me. So it's more than just the strategy. It's really that getting unstuck and figuring out what's special, I call what's fabulous about them, figuring that out and then helping them leverage that throughout their job search their.

Britt East [00:09:23] Career.

Kyle Elliott [00:09:24] And really just owning it in life.

Britt East [00:09:26] Oh, wow. That's amazing. I'll share that. I, came to Kyle when I was going through a career change and reassessment and trying to figure out what I wanted to do next. I had these multiple threads I was working through between my, career advocacy work, the book that I wrote, the speaking engagements and podcasts and all that kind I do, it felt like one life. And then a very different life felt like, my corporate career. And I was actually quite closeted. And in a strange way, I think people would be stunned. I've worked for a bunch of homophobic companies. I mean, virulently mean homophobic companies. So I made pragmatic choices like I bet a lot of listeners have made. And so I was scared about bringing these two threads of my life together. I was scared about taking up space, being more authentic and, and real with people and what that cost might be at the end of the day. What? What might you know? At what cost is the question I kept coming back to? And I will tell you that, through Kyle's relentless optimism, dimples of steel and, you know, probing questions, the work that I got to do with him, you know, I, I've been able to come out in a way I never thought possible. The way, a way in which the 14 year old kid in me in 1980s Tennessee. Oh, this was beyond his wildest dreams. And since then, people have been. The phone has been ringing off the hook, people clamoring to work with me. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, wait a second. The cost, it's going to cost me all of these things. I'm going to be penalized. I just know it, you know? And obviously that's true for, some people in the world. And depending on when and where you live. And I'm not diminishing that in any way, but I'm also creating space for maybe there's a life out there beyond your wildest dreams. And Kyle was, you know, the major part of what, helped me gain access to that. So I just wanted to thank you, Kyle, for all the work that you did with me. I really appreciate it.

Kyle Elliott [00:11:36] And thank you for doing the work. I that's, I think, kind of describes what a coach is. There's no right or wrong answer, but and so guiding you and being there and asking the right questions because there is no right or wrong when it comes to coming out, what you share, how you do it. I'm someone to kind of be that copilot and say, oh, you said this is your goal, but you're driving the direction. You're driving a little to the left and really to be there with you. I think that it's just so powerful, the story you share, where you are now and the impact you're having.

Britt East [00:12:03] And to cut through the butter, it's like we can go get so spin up in our own stories and just have somebody who's objective, neutral and trained and educated, from outside and say like, well, what about this? What about that? And like you said, you say you want one thing and you're doing another and to help cut through the butter. So my next question to you, Kyle, is why is fabulous your favorite word?

Kyle Elliott [00:12:23] Oh gosh, I, I think part of it's being gay. I think, gay word or gay slanting word. And I think it really just is, I think truly something I believe. And not everyone agrees with me. It's every single human on earth, even the people we may dislike or hate us. Fabulous. Once we identify what's fabulous about us, once we share what's fabulous, that inspires other people to do that as well. And oftentimes there's something that's hiding it for people. It could be some trauma, some part of their lived experience or background. And once people share that, it's so fabulous and I get to work with these fabulous people, like clients are doing things, I don't even understand what they're doing. They have this enterprise cloud solution thing or whatever it might be. It's fabulous and I don't have to know about it. I just have to help them pull out their own uniqueness and share it.

Britt East [00:13:13] That's so cool. You know, I feel like in the US right now we have this flavor of capitalism that's relentless and aggressive and the pressure just can feel all consuming. You know there's little in life scarier than suddenly finding yourself without employment in this society. It's not like it once was where you could beg and barter your way through life. Now it's, really quite tough. And I think I suspect a lot of your clients, like me, might come to your doorstep with some fear and some anxiety. And I'm wondering how we how you can help us. How you do help us, how we can learn to harness our anxiety and feel more empowered in our job searches.

Kyle Elliott [00:14:03] What I think is important. I've been in therapy for 13 years. I think part of is therapy coaching, design, supplement it. It's a great compliment. And then figuring out, let's unpack this. What here is you as Brett talking. What is anxiety and really doing that with each client and clarifying that my doctor was a mental health. And I think part of what's powerful is sharing your story, sharing that anxiety. But then what? Saying, okay, now I have this anxiety. What part of this is the stress of the job search being in a capitalist society? What part of this is anxiety and kind of naming that? And then at times through my work that's trauma informed kind of almost setting that aside and saying, okay, great. That's there. We've acknowledged on our that now what's our goal here? And recognizing that that stress, anxiety, whatever feelings and emotions you may have may come up and acknowledging them, owning them and then moving forward as well. And that's not to say those are going to disappear, but just knowing how to navigate and process them can be really powerful. There's few things more stressful than being unemployed, looking for a job, especially now in our labor market. So it's a lot. So knowing how to kind of say hi to them without letting them, overwhelm you or overpower you. It takes practice.

Britt East [00:15:14] Yeah. It seems like there are these exigent forces out there, like social media and big data that have, at least in my opinion, adversely impacted the hiring manager experience, the talent acquisition experience, and the job that. An experience, to be sure. You know, you just alluded to this a little bit. How is the job market and the job search process changed in recent years?

Kyle Elliott [00:15:36] There's a lot more technology. I think technology plays a bigger. People think technology plays a bigger role than it does. But there is the role of technology. There's people automating their job search as recruiters, automating aspects of the hiring process. So sometimes people forget their humanity and forget like, here's what I'm feeling and it's all about how do I optimize my resume? How do I reach out to the most amount of people? And sometimes that fabulousness can be being that human and instead saying, hey, how can I reach out to one person at a time? Maybe I can leverage some technology here, but how can I really remain human throughout all of this and not just get consumed in the stress of the job search consumed and all these technical tools? And sometimes I see I work with a lot of tech folks. They kind of hide behind that. I'm going to spend so much time optimizing an end tech, but I'm not actually addressing what's the core challenges I have, or even just applying or reaching out because they're kind of hiding behind all this technology because it feels safe and no one compared to the unknown of the job market.

Britt East [00:16:35] Yeah. And like you said earlier about unlike talk therapy, for instance, it's I think it's important to know ourselves and to be honest about our aptitudes, affinities or strengths or weaknesses or shortcomings or blind spots. And sometimes that's tough to it's a tough internal assessment to do on our own. And so whether that's through indirect procedures like talk therapy, you know, direct procedures like hiring Kyle as a career coach, I, you know, I find that, I have found that honesty, that kind of rigorous. And because maybe it's my background in 12 steps where you take a fearless moral inventory and you, you get rigorously honest with yourself for the first time, is a key part of it. And not getting stuck there, like you said, not weaponizing that internal assessment against yourself, against the world, not playing the victim card and and learning how to harness and leverage that energy.

Kyle Elliott [00:17:34] Yeah. And it's easy to get stuck in that those emotions and feelings can be overwhelming. And having someone say, okay, yes, we've we've acknowledged those now, what actions are going to move us toward our goals. And I think that's a coach just saying what actions, what steps are going to move you there and then focusing on what's in your control. I think if there's one thing for people, it's okay. Here's what's in my control on the job search, in my career, in my life, I can apply to jobs. I can work on my resume, I can reach out to these people. I can get specific on what I want, and then knowing there's certain aspects that are outside of your control, whether someone replies, whether you email someone and you get a response back, how many people reply and saying those aren't in my control, let me really focus on the inputs that I have control over, and as I optimize those, then my job search is going to improve. My career is going to improve.

Britt East [00:18:20] Yeah. And then I think also like having the humility to, recognize when something is no longer working, like, okay, I applied to 500 jobs last month and didn't get one. And I hear this all the time and didn't get one interview. The whole process is screwed. Okay. And.

Kyle Elliott [00:18:43] Yeah, and I know you work in marketing. Digital marketing. I think about like, I'm like, you're stuck in the beginning of the pipeline. Something's going on. And you could just keep throwing, for example, ad dollars or something. Oh, no one's converting on our website. Or you could step back and say, okay, there's something broken here because the normal response rate is maybe 10% and I -0 or 1% or 0.1%. There's something broken here. Let's look at that pipeline. In even just doing that can be so powerful because again you're in control there. What in the pipeline can I control and optimize and update?

Britt East [00:19:15] Yeah. You know, for me, I'll share a little bit more about my story. Is it also required the humility to, say yes to things that I might otherwise have, been biased against. So based on various parameters. Now, I have all sorts of privilege operating in my life. Obviously. And I had, the privilege to take a six month job search, and on a reduced income. And when I was offered a position, it was for a lot less money than I was used to making. And I decided to take it, and it ended up being the best decision for me. Uncelebrated. Because I'm queer at my company, I work on fabulous projects. I'm getting all sorts of opportunity in terms of portable equity things. I will learn. And it opened the door for a ton of consulting opportunities to augment my income. But I could not see that in the moment. How could I? It's in an intrinsically unknowable future. It's very scary. All the. Stresses involved. My point is, it required a certain leap of faith, and Kyle was really instrumental for me in helping me, shore up my resilience and, belief in myself that, sure, a time is going to elapse. The tough decisions are going to be made, but at the end of the day, chances are I'm going to be gainfully employed again. And it may just not. It just may not look like how I envision. And so staying open to the opportunities will probably serve me well.

Kyle Elliott [00:21:04] Yeah. And recognizing that there's no right answer to what I love here to instead it's looking at these different options and saying, why do you even consider it this way? People can go to a new job and make less. Oftentimes as I work with people, who have more experience to say it's not about the money, it's about all these other things people are recognizing and seeing me, like you said, working on these great projects and creating that solution that works for you. Instead of saying, here's what everyone's saying out there, I need a match to that.

Britt East [00:21:29] Yeah. You know, you talked about, feeling stuck. You have a fantastic blog. You produce so much great free content out there, and we're going to give everybody, links in the show notes to to engage with Kyle and his socials. And I encourage you to check out his blog. Tons of free, really great information. One of the things that you write about in the post is that you actually think there's some value in feeling stuck, and of course, you want to get unstuck. That's not going to stay stuck. That's not the value, but there's some value in feeling stuck. And I was wondering, what do you mean by that? And then how do you help people get unstuck?

Kyle Elliott [00:22:07] Yeah, sometimes there's some value there. Maybe we need to learn something in that process. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned. Often times my dad, a lot of time he'll be like, oh what's up? What are you adding to your resume from this? Like, okay, you got stuck. What can you offer from your resume? Or this is a horrible job. I've had a horrible job or 2 or 3 and saying, okay, what can we learn here? What's the lesson learned here? So I think that's one part. Another part is sometimes it's the wrong problem or the wrong question people are stuck on like, what company should I work for? Or why am I not landing an interview and think, is there something deeper underneath here? So kind of sitting in that stuckness and figuring out what's the real problem that we can solve for can be powerful. Instead of saying, what can we solve the problem? You'll land this new job and you're like, oh, it actually wasn't that. People often ask my success rate. And I say, well, it depends how you measure success. Some people work with me, and it actually wasn't that they needed a new job, they just needed a new manager or to speak up to their manager, or they needed to find work life balance. So sometimes it's figuring out kind of one the lessons learned, but two, it's maybe there's something deeper here or different here than what's initially kind of posed in that stuckness is your body, your mind, your soul, kind of unconsciously trying to dig deeper and say, oh, this isn't really right. You're focusing on the wrong thing.

Britt East [00:23:24] Yeah. I mean, I was laughing about with my husband before the interview, kind of like what we already discussed. Like, wait, you're going to come on and sink Kyle's presence and tell him how much money you no longer make? I was like, no, it's not about that. I'm so much happier, so much more aligned at work. And I'm actually making more money now because of all these clients that are attract. I mean, I think attracted to my alignment and authenticity. So I'm actually making more money. It was just this one piece of the puzzle that seemed through a certain lens, you could raise your eyebrows up, but it's like you said, it's like how you define success. I, you know, as a queer person, I, minimized the impact. For years, living in a homophobic work environment had on me and the the drain that it had. And life without that is just, like, shockingly better. It sounds so simplistic, I know, believe me, but it it's so weird, given the work that I did, that I had this kind of bifurcated life. But I do like many people that experience degrees of closeted ness, I, I do and or did and and so the relief of that pressure is also what freed me up to be able to service additional clients and to be radiant and magnetic to prospective clients and attract that into my life. And that was so much through working with you.

Kyle Elliott [00:24:47] Thank you. And I think it's that matter of you are kind of zooming out a bit and saying it's not just the career, it's not just the life. Often I work with people. That first session is us getting clear on what are your goals short term, long term? How does this align? Is being an environment that's homophobic? Alignment with your goals are not. And us getting clear on all that rather than just, I want this new job, I want to make more money or I want a bigger title, or I want more equities. In some people that is important and some people it's not the number one priority. Or it can be found different ways. As you said, I've had a lot of clients will take roles that are maybe less, large of scope because then they can spend more time with their kids, or they can serve on boards or like you, they can consult. So it's a lot. Have options. And when you're feeling stuck, maybe saying, hey, am I focusing on the right problem here? What's the lesson to be learned? And it just sucks too. So just acknowledging the suck can be helpful.

Britt East [00:25:38] Yeah, as well. Being grounded in reality. Like I said, that's one of the things I love about you is you're not just on opium. It's like actually reality based kindness and hope. It's it's it's not a faker in any way. I'll, I'll share a little bit more. Dirt is in the, job search process. I was, as a lot of people are asked for references, and I'm always been a little irked by this as a queer person. And so what I just decided to do this time, this was ed advice from a black friend of mine. I decided to ask them for references from queer people who currently work for their organization. You should have seen the faces of the straight people on zoom. I mean the how dare you's and how you know, but that is where I made my decision. I actually had several job offers. I went with the lowest offer because there was the highest amount of hope in terms of the alignment of bringing all aspects of my life together. And so the my question to you is, and I'm not necessarily advocating what I did because that could be controversial. And there's all sorts of reasons maybe not to do it, but I'm just kind of like that. How do you advise prospective job candidates kind of suss out the lip service, separate the signals from the noise, get past the the rainbow washing and the flags. And actually look to companies to for a verifiable track record of success of how they're building equity and empowering queer employees.

Kyle Elliott [00:27:19] Yeah, there's whole efforts, dedicated team player branding. I work with a lot of HR executives as well, and that's part of their work, is to make it look like a great place to work. And sometimes it is a great place to work, and sometimes that's just really good employer branding. I think what you did as fabulous may not work for everyone. You're to be in a position of privilege, of multiple offers are worry what are the repercussions, but can be powerful. I encourage people to do those back door, side door reviews and reach out to people who are at the company, who are or who've been at the company, who align with your identity or who seem or, you believe me to testify with you and say, hey, I noticed you used to work here, and you're openly a member of the LGBTQ plus community, or the black community or the Latino community. Do you mind sharing some insights about what it was like working there, what your experience was like? Similarly, when you're interviewing, you can also ask interview style questions back when they say, what questions do you have for us? Hey, can you give me an example of how you advocated for your LGBTQ plus employees over the last year? So giving or asking for specific examples can be really powerful as well. Not just a statement on their website, but their example as well. It can be really powerful. And not that you're looking for the right answer, but you don't have. They say, you know, we haven't thought of that. Here's what we might do or here's how we address that or think about that can be really powerful as well. Their response?

Britt East [00:28:42] Yeah. It's like making mindful choices. Like I said, look, I worked for other kinds of companies for years and years, so I'm certainly not judging anybody. And we have to make pragmatic decisions, based on a variety of factors, but hopefully their mindful choices and that we're honest with ourselves about the environments that we're, you know, landing into, one of the unintended consequences for me. I mean, I went into that conversation with a lot of sanctimonious, which was super fun. But one of the unintended consequences for me is I added myself, and I didn't realize when I was doing it, I was like, oh shit, I guess I'm out now in a way that I have never been before. I've never. I mean, a lot of people know I'm gay or just assume I'm gay based on all sorts of, aspects of my personality or affect, but, other people don't think about it. I'm sure. I never know what somebody is thinking. It's not really my business, but I've never explicitly ordered myself in the job search process before. I'm like, what kind of crazy town is this? But look at the results. I'm happy or free or more aligned and all this kind of stuff. So, you know, there were unintended benefits as well. But obviously that is a byproduct of that approach. And it's not going to be it's it's not going to be, for, for, for everybody. And requires a certain amount of foot space. So everybody, we'll, we'll, we'll tailor it to, to make it, work for them. What kind of unique issues do we as queer people face when looking for work and managing our careers? Like we kind of talked through a bunch there off the cuff, what other sorts of issues should people be aware of?

Kyle Elliott [00:30:20] I think the coming out peace comes out a lot. Do I come out? How do I come out? When do I come out and navigating? That's. One of the biggest ones that queer people tend to kind of bring up with me. And it's there's no right or wrong answer. And I never encourage people to self disclose before they're ready. But that's one of the biggest challenges. Another one is confidence. How much can I share about myself? What part of it is I'm just sharing these facts? And then, or am I coming off as conceited or bragging? And people have been often told just how you are is wrong. So often times when I work with queer people that I'm just sharing facts, they're like, oh, this is too much. And I'm like, oh, I wonder where else in your life you've been told you're too much just stating a fact or just being yourself? So that comes up a lot around the confidence and communication and trying to mask and not just masking the queerness, but just masking the facts about themselves. I love this project. I love this initiative. I have this team and that comes up with other identities as well. But with queer identities, it's just so unique because people we kind of most of us learn, I can't be who I am and share who I am. And then it's this unlearning, relearning, unlearning, relearning as you navigate your job search and your career and your life.

Britt East [00:31:32] Yeah, absolutely. My company has a summer picnic coming up, and I was just like, wait, I'll have to go to that am I, am I can I wait? Are we allowed to? And you know that conditioned response in all like we, we like to paint this simplistic picture of coming out like it's a one time thing. We come up to our mom and then we're done. And then the, queer community embraces us with open arms. And we're in The Wizard of Oz, Yellow Brick Road or some fantasy. But really, so many of us, maybe all of us, are closeted about a wide range of issues over the large majority of our life. Some of that's socially appropriate filtering us. And, you know, I'm, in other words, in my a mindful choice. And other times it's like you said, kind of the conditioned byproduct of having, you know, lived in a society based on sorta straight supremacy. And like all the little ways we have to figure it out that we're dimming our lights and not shining as bright as we could like when we start to shine, we're like, oh no, oh no, who's going to find out about me? Or people are going to think I'm conceited, like you said. And and and learning how to. This is my main wish. I say this probably every episode is learning how to take up space and be who we are. Without constantly caretaking to straight people, without constantly caretaking their delicate sensibilities and learning how to take up space and realizing there might be a cost, but there might actually be a reward that exceeds the wildest dreams.

Kyle Elliott [00:32:58] And it's that constant filtering can be really exhausting. Oh, what did you do over the weekend? Oh, do I share? Client was worried. Do I share that I went to a pride event? Or can I share that I'm on the softball league of all, queer women? What if I share this? And then now I'm outing myself again? So it's this constant kind of journey in wondering and filtering that I think not everyone recognizes. Yeah, that's happened for queer people and other historically oppressed groups that it's challenging and there's no right or wrong answer. But oftentimes as you keep practicing, then you learn, okay, here's where I feel in a way that's safe for me, within this work space.

Britt East [00:33:34] Another question I suspect you get from a lot of prospective, clients or actually clients are working with, with, prospective job offers is should I take a job I don't really want? How do you answer that?

Kyle Elliott [00:33:46] I for most people, they don't have the luxury of just not having a job. They have to have the job at most points if you do have that luxury. I've had some clients who they're like, oh, I could go years or forever without a job. But most people you don't have that luxury. So I always before even going into your job search right now, if you're listening and you have this job offer pending, this isn't going to work. But for most people, before you go on your job search, getting clear on the parameters, what's the minimum salary? What's the minimum kind of requirements around the culture that all accept? Why? It's kind of here's the bare minimum versus what I'd love to have. And if those items meet those bare minimum, sometimes you have to take a job you don't love or even like. Or maybe you dislike because you have to put a roof over your head and food on the table, pay for health care, all of that stuff, and recognize that's okay. We're in a capitalist society where sometimes we don't have as many options as we'd like in the moment.

Britt East [00:34:41] Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think sitting there thinking when you were, talking about this, about like, the culture and stuff that you're willing to accept. Again, more embarrassing sharing in from from my life. Don't necessarily recommend this for everybody, but I'm just kind of triggering like, this is when I was going through the interview process. And this is another one that a queer person of color kind of gave me was, to ask employers explicitly what kind of homophobia I will be facing each day. I get the faces like, no, but we put up pride flags. No no no no no no no no, you don't understand. The default in society is homophobia and straight supremacy. So unless every moment we're not building equity that default. It is what reign supreme. So what are you going to. Is it not as innocuous as it might be? You know, like, for instance, you know, maybe the there's no, same gender bathrooms. Maybe it's, you know, based on the gender binary and stuff. So every there can be so many different ways that that plays out over the course of the workday and ways that, employers have yet to consider. My only point in raising that, again, is to when you can afford to. Again, I was in a privileged position when you can afford to and have the desire to, and it's authentically yours. Don't be afraid to take up space. I'm authentically triggering. It's amazing I ever got a job offer now that I'm saying this out loud. But I did, and so it worked for me.

Kyle Elliott [00:36:10] Yeah, I wonder if that helped you get a job offer there. Saying what? This person's asking us questions we haven't been asked. I wonder what else. I wonder what else? They're going to bring an offer. And perhaps that extra ness can be actually really powerful. And part of that fabulousness where they say, wow, no one's asked that before. This person I was thinking, we need them on the team because imagine how else will contribute and what else we're not thinking about, about what else are blind spots or hidden areas that we need support with?

Britt East [00:36:37] Yeah, and it's funny that you mention that, because now there's an employee resource group for queer people where I work, and I'm one of the leaders of it. So I think you're right. I never even considered that. But here I am, limiting myself again in my thinking. It's like, oh, they might also be getting something out of the equation. It's actually mutually beneficial when employees feel free to be themselves.

Kyle Elliott [00:36:55] Exactly, exactly. And when people feel like they belong, they're more productive. It makes more money. Not that that's the only case for this, but it is a benefit to the business as well.

Britt East [00:37:03] Yeah, because why can I not find a job? I bet you get this all the time.

Kyle Elliott [00:37:09] Yes. What I suggest when people ask that question is to figure out where in the pipeline they're stuck, because most people, 99% say, I just need a new resume. I however, I talked to someone and they had over 50 interviews. They landed first and second, sometimes third, and they weren't getting an offer. And I said, it's not your resume, like not your resume. If you have more than three or so, it could be four, but three interviews and you haven't got an offer. It's something happening in the interview. The flip side is if you're applying to a bunch of jobs and not hiring back, maybe it's your resume, or maybe you're targeting the wrong roles or the wrong companies. So I would suggest literally drawing out the pipeline every single step in the job search. Find companies, then find positions of interest, the resume, a networking interview one, interview two and figure out where are you stuck so you actually know what the problem is and can help. Solve it there. I think that's really important. Instead of just, I need to work on my resume, which I think for a lot of people are important, is easy to kind of hide behind because you can can just control and fixate on that instead of doing that deeper, more difficult work of figuring out, what do I really want? How do I share my fabulousness? Am I being the right amount of me, sharing all of me in a way that's safe in the interview?

Britt East [00:38:28] Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, I remember doing some of that myself. Like you said, there's like a control issue. And it's so scary to like, relinquish that control. And like, the resume is all about control. It's all about like, there's this tiny amount of real estate you have to pack an entire career and, you know, depending upon your age and experience level. And so it can feel like a Rubik's Cube. And it's so easy to obsess about that. But like you said, it's like almost like the scientific method that we all learn in grade school where it's like, you have a goal, you create a hypothesis, you test the hypothesis, you measure the results, draw some conclusions, and rinse and repeat. And then you just keep trying things rather than kind of like dwelling in the gunk, or obsessing over a single issue. Having that spirit of curiosity and humility and there's a, there's like a playfulness to it. I mean, it's easy to say that now that I'm not in it, but, you know, there's like, seen through a certain lens. There can be a certain, curiosity and playfulness to it.

Kyle Elliott [00:39:30] And I love that when you're able to explore that and say, okay, what's going on here? I've applied to a lot of these companies and no one's came back or I've had 40 or 50 interviews. Let's explore what's going on here and what are all the options. Some of them are outside of my control, but what's in my control that I can change here can be interesting and fun. If you take that investigative approach. And that scientific method, I think is perfect, kind of exploring that and looking to figure out what's the answer there.

Britt East [00:39:55] Kyle, you have one rule, and it drove me crazy. I cannot tell you. You told me you warned me that you have one rule and you weren't joking. I thought, okay, he's joking. He doesn't really have this rule and he doesn't really mean it. And he did. And because as my listeners know, I can be kind of a brat. And so Kyle's one rule is his clients are not allowed to say, I don't know which is one of my go tos. I don't know, Kyle. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know Kyle, I don't know. It's so I felt myself so I think I only broke it once or twice, but I found myself, like just so, you know, like, don't say I don't know. Don't say I don't know, because I know is the rule. And, you are all over me. Of course, when I broke it. What is it with that rule? Why it's so important to you? Tell us about it. Yeah.

Kyle Elliott [00:40:47] This is literally my want to rule. If people can customize, yell whatever they want, I don't allow, I don't know, I think of it like an iceberg. When people come to coaching, why do workshops? I have this rule as well. So if you've attended a workshop or anywhere I don't allow, I don't know, there's 10 or 20% maybe above the surface of an iceberg that you can see there's the water, and then there's 80 or 90% below the surface. And I think, I don't know, is really just that water that's hiding the rest of it. And people say, I don't know. And I ask, what do they want in their next job? What are your salary requirements? I don't know, okay, let's uncover that. What do you know that 10 or 20%. And then how can we move the water further down so you can see more of the issue or more of the opportunity? I guess I'm guessing you actually do know your salary requirements. So what would help you figure those out? Oh, actually, I just need to talk to my financial planner and my husband, and I'll get you that number before our next session. But we hide behind that. I don't know, because sometimes the answers are scary as well. What would make you take this offer? What would make you walk away from this offer? What do you really want in a job? What makes you fabulous? I don't know, is an easy answer sometimes, because it allows you to just kind of hide all that other stuff below the surface.

Britt East [00:42:00] So fabulous. I love that iceberg metaphor. It's so evocative. I could see it. Exactly. We're describing just taking the water line inch by inch to revealing more of what was previously unseen. That's that's that's so important. Given my work, I've been thinking a lot about artificial intelligence. This is one of those buzzwords that everybody wants in my field is marketing technology. So I deal with this a lot, and everybody wants, everybody thinks they need everybody's different definitions of and starting to formulate opinions, of what do you think the impact of AI is going to be on the job search process? And then not too distant future, you know, in the 612 month time frame?

Kyle Elliott [00:42:39] Yeah. AI's interesting people are already using it to automate aspects of their job search. I'm gonna have it apply for me or network for me. Reach out for me on the other side. Some recruiters are using it more to. Then when you submit your resume, they're maybe getting a snapshot or a summary of it, or to summarize your call that you have with them or email you send. So many I see it's going to be complimenting a lot of stuff. I don't think it's. Is going to be taking away a lot from the job search. I think when used correctly or most effectively. It's really just going to augment that job search and help people be more efficient. I've had some clients use that really powerfully. They'll like, have their resume and say, hey, which of these three bullets is most powerful? But I is only responding to the human. You have to put stuff into it to get stuff back. So I think when used in the right way, it can be really powerful. And I think you're going to keep seeing it coming up, and job search is going to be more aspects. Maybe that first worry singer or that first screening call is one way you're doing a video, and they may not even watch the video. They may have. I summarized the video now instead of them watching it. So it's going to be used more, but I don't think it's going to replace the human to human aspect of looking for a job and hiring any time soon.

Britt East [00:43:51] But I completely agree. And, I want to remind listeners that just because there is a capability out there does not mean it's been implemented. Believe me, this is my field. So just because some marketing slick said some AI exists somewhere in the world, doesn't mean that it's in use on the job to which you're applying. I get this all the time with applicant tracking systems. Yeah, maybe there's some marketing success. Tracking systems are going to use keywords and filter people out and stuff. But I guarantee you nine out of ten times it's a human being. So I mean, so again, like you kept coming back to our initial focus on your locus of control. What things what aspects of the job search can you control. And you got to let the rest go and have faith that an opportunity, you know, all things being equal, generally speaking, an opportunity is going to come your way. You will be gainfully employed. Again, I understand it doesn't feel like that in this moment, but trust us, you will has tons of clients to to attest to that information. From my own personal experience, because I certainly felt that. I mean, I literally felt, oh my God, I'm never going to work again. And it was obviously it was absurd. And and I'm working more than I ever have. And yeah, I had to invest in myself and it made me look differently than I thought. But but here I am. And there's a lot more empowerment in that. Yeah.

Kyle Elliott [00:45:10] And to recognize you have if you just had a job, you land at that job. And if you even if you just look at the facts, you've kept having jobs and having as you're listening to this, if your words say, hey, one of the things just not worked out at all, right? You can name a time now, like, oh, we everything has worked up to this point. Maybe this in particular in the middle of it. But again, everything leading up to this point has worked out great. And recognizing that you really power quit.

Britt East [00:45:36] You actually did that to me. I'm having flashbacks. I'm getting like major days up there. And I was like, oh, wait, I guess I'm just catastrophizing and remembering.

Kyle Elliott [00:45:44] And that's normal. That's our anxiety. That's our stress on them saying, hey, I'm catastrophizing. Let me set that aside for now so that I can focus on this. Yeah. Powerful.

Britt East [00:45:53] Yeah, yeah. In this crazy, madcap world. Kyle, what gives you hope?

Kyle Elliott [00:45:57] Oh, gosh. People doing amazing work. Often when I work with people, it's not just tech executives, but it's people like you, other folks who are doing meaningful work, having a huge impact. So that's exciting for me. Just seeing that humanity piece and the impact on even what tech, how tech can change the world. I've had clients are like, oh, I love WhatsApp, Kyle and I want to work that matter because this is literally the only way I can communicate with certain family members in other countries or other clients where like, oh, there's internet in these three countries because of me. Kyle, like people doing this amazing work that gives me hope that there's much, many, many, many more people who are doing positive work and making a difference than the negative ones out there. I know there's still stuff that needs to be changed. The work is always going to be happening, but recognizing there's a lot of good happening and at scale is really, really cool.

Britt East [00:46:50] So beautiful. What do you consider sacred?

Kyle Elliott [00:46:54] What do I consider sacred? I would say family. I'm very close up. My family had the privilege of growing up in a family that was very opening and welcoming, throughout my whole life, including when I came out, my partner, literally my dad. The first time he, met my partner was my mom and dad's anniversary at Disneyland, and we stayed in a hotel together, my partner and I with my mom and dad for two nights, and this was the first time I met my partner. And for a lot of people, that's not normal. Not growing up, having accepting parents even now. And for me, I think that's really a gift. And what's allowed me to be such a great coach and human is my parents saying, whoever you are, we're going to accept you, love you, uplift you, and encourage you to just share even more of that. Has really helped. And that's what's just so sacred as this connection I've had that I'm so privileged. I'm lucky to have that. A lot of people don't with their parents, with their family.

Britt East [00:47:48] And if you, check out Kyle's socials, you'll get to see all sorts of really adorable photos of his partner and his family. And, various applications are so, so fun. Where do you seek refuge?

Kyle Elliott [00:47:59] Oh my goodness. In solo time, people are often. And surprise, I'm a huge introvert on the Myers-Briggs. I'm a 15 out of 16 introvert. I am very introverted, so I thrive on really deep 1 to 1 connections, and I need a lot of solo time to process. I love writing, I love reflecting, going on walks, and having that time alone to really process I. Often find it overwhelming how much amazing work my clients are doing and saying, wow, I just talked to this person and they're going to just change the world even more as a result of our conversation, then having downtime to process that be what that's about, that is really helpful.

Britt East [00:48:40] Yeah, that's really cool. That's so beautiful. So like I said we're going to give folks all sorts of great information in the show notes on how to find you. But say somebody is out there listening this episode thinking, gosh, I think Kyle's the perfect missing piece in my career management planning, my, my job search. How could how should they know whether they're a good fit for you? What's the good first step to engage with you?

Kyle Elliott [00:49:06] I think listening to this is really helpful and very transparent. People will say, oh, I saw you on this podcast or on social media. And then we met in you, right?

Britt East [00:49:14] Oh, yeah.

Kyle Elliott [00:49:14] I expected you looked like your pictures. You talk like how I affected everything like that. Go to my website, California Cow, and read some of the testimonials too. I purposefully collect a lot because I want people to realize what it's like, because I only know my experience on this side providing it. I have coaches, and I know what it's like for me to work with them. But read some of those testimonials and say, hey, that's what I want. Here's where I am, and I want to be like that person on that website may maybe a slightly different way, but see if you can see yourself and their stories and their testimonials and kind of that journey from pain to Paradise, as I like to summarize it is, can be really powerful.

Britt East [00:49:53] Is there a certain time in their search that they should contact you? Is there any such thing as too early or too late?

Kyle Elliott [00:49:59] It can be too late, but sometimes I work with people very briefly when they're just. I have an interview and a few days help me out. Most often when people are just starting out as most powerful, so we can get really clear on those basic requirements. We talked about what do you want or need in your next job? Do you actually want to be a tech executive, or are you just chasing that? Because that's what's supposedly the next logical step. So the beginning can be powerful. So then we have more time. We're not rushing. And that can kind of help push along the stress and anxiety. But if you're in the deep of it and also stuck or just wanting support, I'd be happy to chat with you as well.

Britt East [00:50:34] And I can attest to everything that you've been saying, how you are so aligned with, you know, because I follow you on every social channel now and your website and it's all Kyle. So what you see is what you get. And I just think that's awesome. Kyle, I'm just so glad we got the chance to reconnect today. It's been such a joy to see you. I miss working with you. I had such a great time, like in our sessions together impacted me really deeply and I'm just cheering you on the whole way. I know you're going to change so many lives, and thank you for coming on the show today.

Kyle Elliott [00:51:05] Thank you for having me. This was a fabulous conversation.

Britt East [00:51:08] Like I said, everyone, we're going to give you access and the show notes to where you can find Kyle. I really encourage you to check out his social media accounts, as well as his website, caffeinatedkyle.com. We'll put all that in the show notes so you don't have to scribble anything down. You're going to learn a lot. I just cannot recommend Kyle's services enough, so contact him if you think you'd be a good fit. And I just want to thank you for joining us today. I'm not going quietly. You know, we could not do this podcast without your support. It means so much today and you've made it through another episode. So congratulations. Until next time. Bye bye.

Britt East [00:51:45] You've been listening to Not Going Quietly with your host, Britt East. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. As we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. Check out our show notes for links, additional information, and episodes located on your favorite podcast platform. The.