Queer Confidence with Alex Ray

Jonathan [00:00:02] Welcome to Not Going Quietly the podcast where we inspire growth, beat down biases and get into all sorts of good trouble with co-hosts Jonathan Beale and Britt East.

Britt [00:00:11] No topic is off limits as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose and joy.

Jonathan [00:00:19] So get ready to join us in courageous conversation because not going quietly starts right now.

Britt [00:00:30] Hey, everyone. Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast for heartbroken healers and outraged optimists all over the world where we surface life's searing truths in the name of radical togetherness. I'm your host, Britt East, and unfortunately, my co-host, Jonathan Beale, is still on sabbatical, which is a major bummer. However, I've got really good news for you. We have an amazing featured guest today, and I can't wait for you to meet him. So without further ado, let me introduce you. Alex Ray used to be extremely insecure after hitting rock bottom with his depression in 2017, he went on a search to find out what makes people confident. It took him several years and a lot of support, but now he genuinely enjoys being his authentic self. In 2021, he reinvented himself as the queer confidence coach to support others in finding lasting self-worth through his queer story, through his confident queer process. So please join me in welcoming Alex Ray to the podcast. Alex, we're so grateful to have you on the show today. How are you?

Alex [00:01:41] Doing great. Thank you for having me, bro.

Britt [00:01:43] Yeah, It's such a pleasure. You know, we've never met in person, but I've actually been a big fan of yours on social media. And your. Your posts, your videos exude so much authentic, dare I say, queer confidence, self-acceptance, self-esteem. Especially when you're being vulnerable or tender. And I'm just wondering, like, where did this come from? You know, you kind of alluded to it in your bio, but like, how did you reclaim this? How can the rest of us learn to tap into our power? Talk some about that for us.

Alex [00:02:21] Sure. So, I mean, like you. I have not always been the confident person that I present to the world today. And I would say, actually, I probably for a while before was maybe pretty good at faking it. I didn't feel confident on the inside. On the inside, I felt really afraid of what other people were thinking about me. And I used to describe it, like to my therapist that I felt like I was watching life on a TV screen, like I was separate from what was actually going on. I was watching and I was overanalyzing everything going on around me. I was constantly trying to, like, predict and assess how other people felt about me, what they thought about me, trying to, like, make sure that they liked me and that I was just like, worthy to them. And along like that, that was some of my some of my major, I guess, issues that kind of were leading to my depression as well as there's some hereditary things there. And also growing up in an extremely conservative Christian evangelical cult, I mean, it's not like for Handmaid's Tale, but I absolutely would be considered a cult. I just learned that to, like, hate myself and to think that my core I was unworthy of love. I was basically garbage and I had to constantly earn a like an opportunity to be valued by people, which is exhausting. So.

Britt [00:04:22] Yeah, I mean.

Alex [00:04:23] I did end up hitting a rock bottom and I'm sure we can talk about.

Britt [00:04:27] You know, I think our listeners will relate to so much of what you said. Sure, there's some uniqueness as to your story. Like any of us have uniqueness, but I mean, come on, we've all kind of felt that way, especially in the queer community, when we are inundated, saturated with messages about our worthlessness, about how we don't belong, how we should, and often are cast out of society. And when you factor in the absence of so many of our elders through the AIDS epidemic who might have taught us how to be culturally queer, helped arrange cultural transmission points, initiation ceremonies instilled in us that kind of sense of self-worth, where maybe if we're if we come from a straight family, maybe that was lacking, even if I have the best of intentions because they lack the requisite lived experience. So, you know, you alluded to a lot of self-care like therapy going to a therapist. And I'm wondering if you can kind of share some about how you started to build this sense of self-worth brick by brick, because it sounds like it was a lot of work.

Alex [00:05:40] Yeah. So. To skip ahead in the story in 2017. When I say I hit rock bottom, I really mean like all. Well, for me it was the lowest possible. I attempted suicide that year because I really didn't see any way forward in life. And I was I was miserable. I was depressed. I hated being alive. And I'm thankfully it was not successful. And I and I think there was a part of me that really not I think I know that there was a part of me that that even though I thought it was impossible to enjoy life, I was hopeful that maybe somehow if I survived that, I would actually. Like figure figured out that there would be some kind of magical answer for me. When I went back and I had been in therapy and on medication up to that point, and I wasn't really honest with my therapist. And it was because I felt like I was going to be a burden and I didn't want to be a burden to her. And so I didn't fully, honestly share everything that was going on in my mind. And after that, it was kind of like, well, obviously now it's time to share. We're not going to hold anything back because what do I have to lose anyway at this point? And that's the point at which I really started seeing some changes. So you can't just I thought you could just show up at therapy and just be fixed. I didn't realize that I had to do a lot, if not the majority of the work, and that it really was going to take brutal honesty. So one of the big things that we discovered in that first like months of really me being much more honest was that I had this belief, this core belief. I like to call it an idea seed, because we all have these it's like these super, super simple ideas or concepts that we think are true and that. As they are watered throughout our life. They grow into like a really strong oak tree. They've got roots in areas we don't even know. They are sturdy like a freaking oak oak tree. And then the the branches of that are like, throughout our life, we see evidence of this little seed. Mine was I am not enough. And I believe that because growing up in the church, I was taught that, you know, humans are sinful, terrible beings by default and Jesus hostile or like God has had to send Jesus to die for us. So because we're so terrible. My therapist rephrased or reframed it in a way that really started to break down that belief for me. And so even though I am not a Christian, this is what I needed to hear at the time was what if we looked at it like? You are actually so worthy that you are worth dying for. And that to me was like a good ol flip, Not like I'm so worthless. Someone had to do this for me. So I feel bad about it. It was, Oh, I am so worthy that someone would sacrifice their life for mine. And that really helped me. It really helped me start to think about, okay, wait a minute, maybe I am enough and let's start actually watering that seed. How can I start finding evidence on a daily basis that I am enough? That was the big that right there was the big mental turning point for me.

Britt [00:09:45] Yeah. You know, so many of us queer people will do anything to avoid getting real. And I loved your story because, you know, you describe like, Oh, I could just go to the drive thru window at therapy and get, you know, my Big Mac healing package, my super size combo of, you know, and it's like, No, we have to be in relationship with this person, therapist or whoever, our healing provider as coach, mentor, whatever. There's no bypassing the relationship. And that is that is the healing process that baring our tender hearts, allowing somebody to peer behind the mask as you described so beautifully. That is the healing, that is the magic. And then through that process, the light switches will start to be flipped on like that beautiful jiu jitsu that your therapist did for you of like just doing the 180 reframe. You're like, Oh my gosh. And then it just opens doors. It's, you know, but there's there's no way to skip to the end of the book to fast forward, to bypass in any meaningful way. And I guess my question to you is sometimes I feel like exasperated with our community and like, what is it going to take for us to require more of ourselves and more from society and actually risk baring our tender hearts and allowing somebody to see us?

Alex [00:11:26] Are you. Are you asking me now? Oh, yeah. So tell me your question. I got in because, like ADHD moment, I got so caught up in what you're saying. I'm not saying this that I don't know that I have a real answer.

Britt [00:11:43] My question is, is like bottom line it for us, like what is it going to take for us to get real as as a community into take up space and to once and for all start to practice taking off our masks and really allowing ourselves to be seen so we can be in these healing, transformative relationships.

Alex [00:12:08] Okay. So for me and my experience of this, it was getting to desperation. I think that a lot of us are. I can just speak from my perspective. I frequently. Kind of find a an an escape. Maybe before I've really finished learning a lesson or before I've really hit the point of full on, like desperation. I've got to figure this out. I have tattooed on my thighs. One of them says desperation and the other one says, Breakthrough through. And to me, it's a reminder that at our most desperate rock bottom, breakthrough is right around the corner. So don't give up hope. And also, like the desperation isn't necessarily a bad thing for me. I know that I tend to if I if I have a way out when I get like, mildly uncomfortable, I will often take it and I'll be like, Cool, great, that took care of the problem. But it's like a little Band-Aid. It's not actually taking care of the issue. So it happened and for me was like I got fully desperate. I mean, trying to end your life is like, don't know if you can get more desperate than that. And then I was like, okay, well, again, now I have nothing to lose, so I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to like, open up to a whole lot of new possibilities that are massively uncomfortable. But at this point, I'm desperate for a change and there's really no other choice. And that's what got me to start taking a much bigger active role in my healing and. When I when I did that, I also started doing a whole bunch of extra work, researching things, understanding things, learning things outside of the therapy room. It wasn't just an hour a week. It was like a daily thing. I was looking for answers. I was looking for information. I was looking for tools that I could start using, which is how I stumbled across life coaching and started learning all of these techniques and stuff. And for me the therapy was really hot for and kind of starting the process. But what I found in coaching gave me the tools to actually reframe my worldview and like use practical stuff. It felt more active. I felt more empowered using it and. That's what ends up being like the most hopeful for me.

Britt [00:14:59] Yeah. So a series of deep investments in yourself. Now it's like that took that event in your life to show you that you're worth it. And then a series of investments. How do you how do you instill that kind of fire in your clients who come to you in various states of pain or confusion or need? How do you, you know, kind of I don't want to say prevent the rock bottom, but how do you start to instill that fire in them for their own self-worth?

Alex [00:15:34] Yeah. So this has been, I think, something that was really uncomfortable for me to accept at first, but that I've gotten much better at accepting. And I truly think it's the only answer here is that I really put it back in their hands and I, I don't try to rescue my clients anymore. And I think that a lot of the people that I've worked with have been used to being rescued in a way where, like other people come along and try to do it for them because they are struggling with self-esteem like I did. I mean, that was I felt like what other people were doing for me. And it wasn't until I was around people and hearing the message of like, No, you fucking got this. I can kind of be a resource for you, but I can't do it for you and I believe you're capable. That was kind of the wake up that I really needed. And for some people I tell it to them more directly and they love it. And for other people it's a much chance, gentler approach. I really cater it to the person, but I think ultimately it's kind of the same message that like, Hey, I can't do this for you. I'm a tool for you, I'm a resource for you. I've got tools that you can start using. I've got things that, you know, I can help you out with. But but you ultimately have to decide that this is what you want and be working on this all the time, not just with me. And. Honesty. It takes so much honesty. Yeah, because otherwise we just hide behind the masks.

Britt [00:17:30] And I mean, I see that so much in our community of people. Kind of. You can almost kind of read their minds a little bit out in the world where it's like, Well, I may not have I may not be straight, but I'm really cute. And so I'm going to leverage that. And that'll make me filled with self-worth. Or I may not be really tall, but I am really smart or I may not be, you know, and sort of like picking one or two attributes that they almost subconsciously think they can leverage and parlay into a sense of self-worth as opposed to cultivating this idea that they are intrinsically lovable, regardless of their sexual orientation, their gender expression, the way that they look or don't work, whatever stories they have about their body or their mind or their life, that they are intrinsically lovable. And so I guess my question to you, as Alex, is when did you learn that about yourself? Is it as simple as just making a choice like I'm intrinsically lovable, or is it like you have to have a series of catharsis and, you know, rock bottom moments? How did that work?

Alex [00:18:45] Oh, my God. It's not. It's not finished.

Britt [00:18:49] It's definitely.

Alex [00:18:52] Definitely an ongoing process. You know, part of it is making a decision to like, hey, I know I don't see the path there, but I'm going to commit to working on this. But the other part is also really surrounding yourself with people who show you an example. I don't think that we can just pull self-love out of our ass. Like I see. And I feel like that's kind of a popular message online that like, Oh, just love yourself. Right. Well, a lot of us have never fucking been shown what that looks like and we have never experienced from it. So how in the hell are we supposed to just pull out of self-love when our entire experience shows us? No, you're not lovable. No, you're not lovable. No, you're not lovable. That that's ridiculous. So, like, being with other people that really show that to you. And I think that is one of the greatest gifts that I give to people as a coach. But it doesn't have to be from a coach. It can be from friends or everyone listening. Right. Right now, you can do this for someone else. If I just being someone who sees them as a whole, beautiful, lovable, empowered person. You never know what kind of change that's going to have in someone's life.

Britt [00:20:26] Yeah, I mean, you got me really excited with that because then what you're talking about there is also indirectly you're cultivating self-esteem. We build self-esteem by through estimable acts. So when we are being that change that we want to see, then we also receive the love as well. We start to build our own confidence, our own self-esteem, our own self-worth. And so it becomes this virtuous cycle and there's a certain element of choice to it. But there's also the element, like you said, as Instagram therapy is worthless. So it's like there's the element of getting real and, and like honoring the fact that like, hey, I've gotten probably, you know, depending on when and where I live and my orientation, I've probably gotten some adverse messages from society or had some rough experiences and maybe I don't even know what self-worth feels like. Maybe I don't even know what it looks like for us standing in the room with me. Maybe I wouldn't even recognize it. So it's like I might have to go find these benevolent witnesses and teachers and mentors again back to the queer elders that we're missing. And to start to recognize that, like, what is it? And so it's like you as a coach can model that in your relationship with your clients so that they then who like, start to recognize it elsewhere in the world and it becomes that like platform they can jump off of and experience life. But it just seems like we have to get real first with where we've been, what we've experienced. It's so that we're not just kind of pretending, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Alex [00:22:05] Absolutely. 100%. Yeah.

Britt [00:22:09] You know, you were posting I think I was on Tik-tok a while back about confirmation bias, and I was hoping you could kind of walk us through that. Like, what is confirmation bias? How do we get stuck in our own internal loops? How can we break free? How do you see that playing out in your clients and people in the in the world?

Alex [00:22:30] Excellent question. Okay, So. I'll search, just like with a definition of confirmation bias. And I'm like, Come on, let's go from there. So confirmation bias is the tendency for humans to interpret any new evidence in favor of their existing beliefs. So what this looks like is, you know, when you're if you're selected for jury duty, they ask you a series of questions in order to find out how much experience or emotional attachment or whatever you could have to the case. And what they're looking for is someone with as many more experience or exposure to the type of crime that's being tried as possible so that they get an unbiased response from you as a juror. It is impossible to not be biased that it doesn't exist. Our brains work through biases which are just beliefs that we've had, that we've we've seen something happen when we were young. We saw it happen again. And before we knew it, we had all this evidence built up that this is the way the world works. And so that allows us to operate very quickly and efficiently. And we don't have to learn everything from scratch all over again. Like, I don't have to learn how to plug in a microphone. And that, like, this is a thing that picks up sound waves because I remember it from doing it before. So bias is not a bad thing. It's actually a very good thing. It's just and we can't get rid of it. So what we want to do is be aware of it. Confirmation bias is that we're going to is the concept now again, that like no matter what evidence you're presented with, you're going to interpret that evidence. As something that aligns with existing beliefs that you have. And. That's why I like, you know, it was very effective for me at the time that my therapist, she didn't like, attack the belief that I had about Jesus. She works with that and just tweaked a little bit. Okay. So now that we have the definition out the way. What was your next question about coverage?

Britt [00:24:58] No, I mean, first of all, that was like maybe the best definition of ever heard. That was fantastic. I hope everybody is like writing that down. And I love how you I'm going to get to your question, but I love how you let us off the hook. It's something that unites us, these neurocognitive biases. It's like we all have them. So it's not there's no shame in it. It's not a moral issue. It's just human design. We've all got them. It's something that unites us and hopefully that creates some empathy between us that, hey, you have some blind spots. I have some blind spots. And so my question was, how do we tend to get stuck? And these are like our own loops of these biases, and they start to, like, affect our decision making inadvertently and kind of warp the contours of our life as we're moving through the world because we're just kind of bouncing from bias to bias kind of mindlessly.

Alex [00:25:55] I think it's the way that we can effectively approach is with curiosity and with like self disclosure. So curiosity, you know, being. Being open to, hey, I see things this way ABC but I'm open to. The idea that maybe there's another perspective here. I'm open to getting curious here, finding out information, asking questions. I'm open to the fact that maybe I don't have the whole perspective or maybe there's things that are going on that I'm not aware of or I'm open to. Other people could have had different intentions for this thing. That was very hurtful to me. And then the self disclosure part, like when we are working through conflict with another person, I frequently I like lean into. Okay, hey. Here's, you know, what it felt like or what how I interpreted that. But also I realized that I have a history from, you know, other scenarios, whatever. I'm ex my parents. Growing up in evangelical Christianity, whatever, those things are all going to influence how I feel about this. So, like, this is what you did was super hurtful to me, but can we talk about it? And I'm I'm open to hearing your perspective. Why did you do what you did? Because to me, my experiences, that was the worst thing you could have possibly done.

Britt [00:27:42] Hmm. Yeah, it's it's. I was kind of chuckling to myself when you're talking, because I was thinking about how so many in our community are kind of always dancing with one eye on the door, so to speak, where it's like, Yeah, maybe we're dating somebody, sing a few people or whatever, and we things are going pretty good. But inevitably something gets a little too real. Something gets in our craw. Something annoys us the way they burp or smell or gossip or crack their knuckles. Just something just irritates us. And we're out the door as fast as we can because there's some sort of bias that it taps into, some sort of a belief that it taps into. And we in our community in particular, I think can be really quick for all sorts of reasons that are not our fault, can be really quick to press that escape hatch. And so when you were talking about using my words, being in community with people who differ from you, maybe hold different, different beliefs, I think awareness of these biases can really help. And that's why I brought it up, not to have some esoteric discussion on, you know, the way the brain works, but because it's like important in our daily lives. There's direct application in our daily like, for instance, I live in a suburb of Seattle, and so listeners can have all sorts of preconceived notions about what my life experience might be, but you might not know that I, that I in my particular suburb, there's a whole bunch of people that I will just call Nazis for the fun of it, just call them Nazis because it's fun. Now who knows what their real belief is, But it's they make it really clear what side of the political spectrum they're on. So I get the chance every day just about to practice this. While wow, you likely hold some set of beliefs that are really abhorrent to me or weird or dangerous. And that's all very real. And yet I suspect I have some blind spots like you alluded to. Alex. I suspect there's things about my life I'm not proud of. I suspect that there's things about your life I've gotten wrong as I'm making up stories about you. And so, like you said, it starts with curiosity. You know, whether I'm curious about the fact that I want to start with my boyfriend or I'm curious about the accusations I'm making about people who live near me because they look a certain way or they wear a Trump down or whatever, you know, whatever contrast we're finding. And so I think these understanding the way the brain works in these patterns can be really helpful just to say to stop and say, wait a second. Can I just breathe? Before you know it, take a moment and breathe. Before I jump down somebody's throat or I press escape hatch. And can I get curious? And maybe even if I'm really on my A-game, sympathetic and, you know, wonder, like, maybe where they're coming from, maybe I can learn something. Maybe I can have an enriching relationship with somebody that I might have prejudged previously. So that's where where I'm kind of coming from for the audience. Like, it's not we're not just having this theoretical conversation about neurocognitive biases. It's like by understanding the way our human design operates, we can be more effective at loving one another and getting what we want. I was wondering, Alex, if you experience any of this in your life, You've talked about, you know, growing up with people who maybe share different beliefs than you, but I'm sure in your daily experience, you know that you encounter conflict. It's like, how do you how do you short circuit this confirmation bias? How do you bring yourself into a state of curiosity so that you can then learn and grow and love more deeply?

Alex [00:31:56] Oh, my God. This is such a bad question.

Britt [00:31:59] Yes, Pop quiz.

Alex [00:32:02] I love it. Okay. I also want to circle back maybe after this on how cognitive bias works, like in our own head towards our own, like self-confidence. So, again, not to like, derail us on that at the moment with you. Come back to that. I'm trying to think of some some examples that that could be like. Good to share here. I know, like my boyfriend and I have had instances where we have like talked about things that we wanted and in our relationship, what we envision for our future and been on different pages and. Or. We both thought we were on the same page. And then we realized later that we weren't the thing that. We're this where this kind of comes into play. There is. Actually, let me let me I know I'm being like, extra bouncy around it right now, but. I want to go to this like illustration that makes us really easy to see. So I used to work for this company that had a really cool, like communications workshop that they would have us do. And one of the exercises that they had us do in there was called the Spring Exercise. And so I think there were like 30 people in the class went to that and they said, Hey, everyone, you like write down a list of ten things that you think of when you hear spring. And so. I wrote down things like, you know, a metal coil, a spring. I wrote down the season. Spring. Summer. Winter Falls. Spring. Right. That's not the order, but. And. At the end of the exercise, everyone had their ten things. They asked us, okay, how many people in the room do you think have the same last? Does everyone probably have the same ten things on our list? Are there only a few? Whatever. And I was like, I have probably like maybe one or two people. Zero. Zero people had the same. And then someone actually stood up and proved that actually, statistically, it is nearly impossible. It was like one in a billion or one in a trillion chance that everyone would have the same ten things on their list. It was ridiculous. And what it what it was supposed to illustrate was just a reminder that, hey, we all might be using the same word here. But we have very different definitions based on our experience of what that word means. So when you are setting up expectations at work, in your relationships, your friendships, your whatever, you can not. Expects that if you just put out there like, Oh, well, I think we should have this, that you are going to be on the same page as the other person. It takes a lot more conversation to get on the same page and. Biggest lesson for me has been there are still going to be things that you differ on that you cannot prepare ahead of time and avoid. It's the conflict is unavoidable. We're going to have it. But do we navigate it with love, curiosity, understanding, empathy, or do we navigate it through accusations, unkindness, hatred?

Britt [00:36:12] Yeah, it's like what you're describing. Again, what we keep coming back to in this conversation is being in community and relationship, and there's really no bypassing it. It's the way that we're wired. It's so tempting as queer people to want to withdraw from society or to skim the surface of life going from party to party or whatever, you know, cliché you want to draw upon where we're not truly sitting quietly and listening as you've described previously, or much less experiencing sustained conflict with the sense of patience and durability and and pliability. Like, Oh, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, maybe we're both wrong. Maybe there's something we're missing, maybe we're both right and just missing each other in this moment. For so many of us, especially in the queer community, from what we've suffered through straight supremacy and everything, all of the horrible messages that we receive and we're saturated with so many of us, just immediately go to the escape hatch or want to pretend that we're in community. But as soon as something gets a little bit uncomfortable, we're gone. As soon as there's something. Something's not cute. No, I can't afford it. I'm out. And I guess my question to you is, where do these self-limiting beliefs come from and how do we start to overcome them? These beliefs that I can't afford for people to see me, I can't I can't risk this fight with my boyfriend. So I'm just going to be quiet. I'm just going to make it okay. I can't afford to be in conflict with somebody because it hurts too much. Where does this come from? How can we stop this, these kind of self-defeating patterns?

Alex [00:38:10] That's a great question. And I think this kind of. Close to what I was suggesting. We also circled back on earlier around how cognitive bias works within ourselves, because we've talked about it externally a lot, but within ourselves as it relates to like our confidence, our self-worth. If you are already have come to a place where you have low self-esteem, you don't feel confident, you don't feel like you're worthy, you don't feel like you're lovable. You going no matter what other people do or say, you're going to by default interpret it to mean the same thing. But this is now evidence that, like you are correct, that you are unlovable, that they don't care about you, etc.. I mean, think just the first easy example that comes to the top of my head is like when a friend doesn't respond to your text message, do you go to the place of like, oh, they don't really care about me, right? I'm not important to them, right? Who knows why they didn't respond to your text message. They they might like their phone might have fallen out the window and got run over on the highway. They might not even have it anymore. They might be going through a personal crisis. They might be in meetings and they don't have access to their phone. They they might be going through like something really traumatic and scary for them in their current really like in their relationship or something. And that is consuming all of their attention. They don't have the space to respond to your message right now, and they don't even know that your message was so important to you. Take hours for it. And that's like a really simple, easy thing. I'm sure we can all think of hundreds of times that we've felt like that somebody did something to hurt us. And then after conversation realize like, Oh, it wasn't intentional for that. So the reason we do that, though, is because it's like, Oh, here's more evidence that people don't love me or don't care about me. You didn't respond to my message on time all like I must be trash. But for most of us, I must be trash. Is not the first, like most conscious thought on our mind. It's like they're the problem. And so just be aware of like what is actually really being triggered and, you know, Are you really upset that. That they didn't respond to your message or are you upset that they are perhaps. For reinforcing this negative belief you have about yourself. And now you're trying to like go and work on them and their behavior. Because if you work on them in their behavior, then you won't ever have to have a scenario potentially that could reinforce this negative belief you have about yourself. A much more effective thing to do would be to pause like actually do this introspection, which can be very challenging to do on your own. Plus, I'd say that that's why therapy and coaching are so effective. But pausing and looking at like, okay, what is it that you're really upset about? And also like, are there any things on your side of the road that you want to that you need to look out here that are being kind of triggered by this? Maybe, maybe it's actually not true that they don't care about you and maybe they do really super care.

Britt [00:41:36] Maybe maybe.

Alex [00:41:38] They read your message in a way that made it seem like it didn't matter when you got back to them.

Britt [00:41:45] Or that you just happened to not see it.

Alex [00:41:49] Die. Yeah, that's never happened.

Britt [00:41:51] Yeah, exactly. You know, it's funny, you were talking. We spent a long time talking about the mental aspect to it, but I think there's also a physical aspect to it, like training your body to breathe through uncomfortable sensations, schematically training your nervous system to sit still. I first learned this in yoga and a kind of yoga that I practice the longest was a very slow it's called the end yoga. It's a very slow where you hold the poses excruciatingly long amount of time, often like three, 5 minutes. And it forces you to sit through the discomfort of like, oh, there's a fly on my toe and I want to swat it and I could swat it and I won't get yelled at, but maybe that's missing the point. What if I just sat still so that when then the conflict comes up that you describe, Oh, somebody didn't text me back. And the way or the time that I wanted to, I can learn to sit through that physical discomfort and maybe breathe and slow my pulse so that I can then regain my mental processing to kind of reenter the real world instead of the, you know, the kind of confirmation bias loop that we were talking about. Are there any physical practices that you do, Alex, that that help keep you grounded?

Alex [00:43:18] Yeah. So when I, I did this more frequently at the beginning of this journey and only like recently within the last year, I've just kind of dialed back some partly because it. That's not true. Let's say I was going to say partly because it doesn't make as much of a difference for me now. I think it made a more significant difference in the beginning. And now it's like it's old news and snubs. Exciting. And maybe that's more the reason I stopped doing it. But like cold showers, I love that I hate them, but I love them having that cold water on your body. Don't start with like a long period of time. It's really okay to just start with like 15 seconds and work your way up from there. But like getting that cold water on all the sensitive places, like the back of your neck, your chest, your armpits, those areas really of the top of your head to like really challenged me to just breathe through it and be with that discomfort. And I tell you what, it was really, really hot for. Also like it ended up helping me, I think, get to the point where I was like, I don't want to drink anymore. I drink water, but not alcohol. Well, because drinking for me was that like, oh, and I'm mildly just uncomfortable. I mean, pressed on or even like, moderately uncomfortable, I may press that.

Britt [00:45:00] Or even bored.

Alex [00:45:04] Once you give yourself less escape, like you realize, Oh my God, I've been escaping so many things that I thought were going to be really uncomfortable. And the amount of discomfort here is so easy to manage. I just needed to, like, give myself the opportunity to just start with something small and work my way up. Yeah. Yeah.

Britt [00:45:22] I love it too, because it's like you also realize, like in my case, I also don't drink almost anything at all and you realize like, Oh wow, the hangover is actually more uncomfortable than the thing I was trying to avoid in the first.

Alex [00:45:37] Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hangovers are horrible. I haven't had a hangover in God, I don't know, like four years, probably. Yeah, I don't miss that at all. And then I, like, I have friends that will tell me about it, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, I can remember that sensation. That's terrible. So sorry for you. But, you know, I feel great. You want to go get Brian champagne?

Britt [00:46:06] Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That is so. So it's like. Yeah, I mean, it's just taking a clear eyed, honest look at your own choices in an underage mental way. Not a moralizing way, but just like, let's just get honest with ourselves, at least behind closed doors. I mean, can we just start there and just be like, okay, maybe like, I'll experiment some with drinking a little less doesn't mean I'm bad or did something wrong, quote unquote. It's just like maybe I might feel more satisfaction, more happiness, more peace if I just sort of becomes like, I can experiment.

Alex [00:46:38] Yeah, absolutely. I think you can look at it both ways. You can you can dial back the ways that you kind of escape discomfort, work on on dialing those back slightly. Or you can, on purpose, do something that feels uncomfortable. Yeah, either way. And like again, you don't you I love what you pointed out there. It's this is not a moral issue. You're not a hard person for doing these things, these coping mechanisms that that any any coping mechanism anyone has is something that works. Even if it has a lot of unintended side effects, it still works. Otherwise you wouldn't have done it.

Britt [00:47:19] Exactly.

Alex [00:47:19] You were like once you did it a few more times and before you know it, it became a regular habit. So don't expect yourself also to be able to just like get rid of it overnight. And for many people, getting rid of something completely like never drinking again isn't really their goal. It doesn't have to be your goal just because it was or is my thing that I, I gave up and I don't really feel like I want to do again. It does not mean that that is true for everyone. You can adjust these things.

Britt [00:47:48] Yeah. You know, I think that spirit is so helpful because for me anyway, it, it becomes more about playing about life as opposed to like, oh my gosh, I have to do this. I have to be perfect, I have to work harder, I have to buckle down. It's like, no, I'm, I'm experimenting with my life, am a happier, more filled, more loving in my kinder when I'd change this behavior. Kind had a new behavior. Drop a behavior, tweak a behavior, whatever it is. Am I more present? Yeah, I'm a more curious, softer, gentler. Then it's like, Oh, well, that's some good data and I can try some. Try that again. It's not I don't have to wag my finger at myself or judge other people. Like shame is not a change agent. So it's like, might as well just drop all that shit to the side and just focus on on playing that game of life.

Alex [00:48:41] Right.

Britt [00:48:43] All right. Well, Alex, you know, I could talk to you all day. It was so fun to chat with you in person. I have thoroughly enjoyed following you on social media, and we're going to make sure that we load up the show notes with all sorts of goodies so people can find you. I highly encourage you to stalk Alex on social as he's so funny and real and smart and vulnerable. And I know I've learned a lot by watching him, and I think you will too, so I'll make sure to give you all of those links. Alex thank you. It was so great to meet you. I really appreciate having you on the show. Thank you. Britt, It was.

Alex [00:49:20] Such a pleasure to be here. And I'm just honored to be able to to chat with you and all our listeners today.

Britt [00:49:28] Awesome. All right, everybody, you have made it through another hour of not going quietly. Congratulate yourselves. You did it. I'm so proud of you. We could not do this without you. We really appreciate you and all the love that you send our way. So until next time, this is not going quietly. I'm your host priest. Thank you so much. Bye bye. You've been listening to. Not Going Quietly with co-hosts Jonathan Beale and Brett East.

Jonathan [00:49:56] Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose and joy.

Britt [00:50:04] Check out our show notes for links, additional information, and episodes located on your favorite podcast platform.