Queer Vibrancy with Ted Smith

Jonathan [00:00:02] Welcome to Not Going Quietly the podcast where we inspire growth, beat down biases and get into all sorts of good trouble with co-hosts Jonathan Beale and Britt East.

Britt [00:00:11] No topic is off limits as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose and joy.

Jonathan [00:00:19] So get ready to join us in courageous conversation because not going quietly starts right now.

Britt [00:00:30] Everyone. Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast for outraged optimists and heartbroken healers all over the world where we surface life searing truths in the name of radical togetherness. I'm your host, Brit East. Unfortunately, my co-host, Jonathan Beale, is still on sabbatical. However, I have great news for you. We have an amazing featured guest today, and I cannot wait for you to meet him. So let's dive right in. Ted Smith is a relationship coach, number one, bestselling author and certified hypnotherapy Practitioner in 2021. He published his bestselling book, "Healthy Me Happy We: Transforming Relationships with Yourself and Others." As a relationship coach, he helps people cultivate healthy relationships with other people and most importantly, with themselves. And he guides his clients to discover, face and release what's been blocking them from fully embracing their true selves. So please join me in welcoming Ted Spence to the podcast. Ted. How are you today?

Ted [00:01:39] I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

Britt [00:01:43] Yeah. It's so wonderful to see you. It's been. It's been a long time, so it's really great to reconnect. Well, I want you to tell our audience about your book. "Healthy Me Happy We." Why did you write it? Who's it for? What's it about? Give us a little spiel.

Ted [00:01:59] Yeah. So I published the book back in 2021. So it's a couple of years ago and I wrote that story in order to help people in their relationships because I had a lot of lessons to learn for myself when it came to relationships. And so I wanted to share things with the world as kind of a loving guide so that maybe it could help people not spend as much time in unhealthy relationships as I did. So I my backstory is I spent 15 years in an unhealthy relationship, very unhealthy relationship, full of codependency and abuse and addiction and lots of kind of ugly stuff. And I wanted to share this book because it documents not only my experience and kind of a personal narrative straight away, but it also shares the things I've learned. So like conceptualizing the things that I went through and to like what unhealthy relationships look like in general, and also sharing the beginning of my healing journey, as well as what healthy relationships with other people do look like.

Britt [00:03:12] It's so beautiful, you know? I got the chance to read your book when it first came out, of course, and then was rereading it to prepare for this episode. And it got me thinking about my own journey, you know, the journey that that you share so bravely and journeys that we've heard from other. And I'm thinking gay men in particular, just based on our lived experience. And I can't help but wonder this is slightly provocative, but I can't help it why so many of us gay men seem to expect so little from life.

Ted [00:03:48] Yeah. Yeah. I think it's because we, you know, it comes down to self-worth. I think a lot of the reason that gay men and up in unhealthy relationships both as you know and I'm not kind of pointing fingers here, but like there can be one person in the relationship that tends to be the abuser and the other person that's kind of the target. But as I well know from my experience, that dynamic can kind of shift on a dime, even in the midst of various conversations. So it's not like one guy is the bad guy and the other is kind of the victim. Um, but I think so much of it comes from especially, you know, for, for. Gay men who were not accepted or didn't accept themselves as gay. You know, that leads to a lot of challenges with substance abuse and unhealthy relationships because they're looking for something outside of them to help them feel better on the inside, to help kind of seek this outside source of love and acceptance and happiness, really. And so that's kind of where all that comes from. Gay men, as I'm sure we've talked about in many situations, like gay men, have a lot of shame that is there to heal. And when it's not healed yet, there are all sorts of unhealthy situations and things that. Game and experience.

Britt [00:05:26] Yeah. You know, I was struck by the dichotomy that you laid out at the beginning there where you talked about the distinction between victim and abuser and how that can be murky and flip flop. And I know my experience with that was really jarring. And you know what I mean? When my world kind of cracked open in despair, it was through sex addiction. And so one of the things that I got involved in that I think saved my life was a group similar to Al-Anon, the companion program to AA, Alcoholics Anonymous. It's called Kazaa Codependent Sex Addicts Anonymous. My partner at the time was a sex addict. And one of the really you know, at first after the disclosure, you get a lot of empathy, of course, from your social network. And then even the shadow of that empathy can almost be this kind of this this victim of this victimization. Yeah. And there's so tantalizing for me to wrap myself up in. In my case, the details were kind of salacious. So it was really kind of tantalizing and. KAZU. This program, similar to Al-Anon, was like a splash of cold water in the face, forcing me to look at all the ways in which I participated in the reciprocal dynamic of addiction. And I was hoping you could talk about some of your story with regards to that in your relationship and focus more so also about the other person, more so about your journey into healing and personal growth.

Ted [00:07:10] Yeah, I'd be happy to talk about that. It was I so I did Al-Anon for several months at the beginning of my healing journey, and my one on one work with my therapist was really key to unlocking a lot of things. And yeah, it was definitely kind of a slap in the face because at that, you know, for 15 years or a little less than 15 years, it was so easy for me to put all the blame on my ex for why things were bad between us. And certainly he had responsibility in it for the way he treated me and the way he treated himself. But I had not woken up and realized the responsibility that I had in the relationship for enabling that behavior for staying as long as I did. And I didn't treat him all that great either. So it was all these things that I got to wake up and realize. And even, you know, it's interesting because I published the book in 2021 and it's now two years later, and I'm very proud of my book. I stand by it. I think it's a helpful message for a lot of people. And even still, when I look at some of how I wrote things in the book, there were still this underlying energy of blame of him and like these little like digs at him throughout the book. And I, you know, I look at those things now two years later, and based on how I've healed and taken responsibility for myself, I look at those things and I'm like, Oh, yeah, I would I would frame I would frame things in a different way now. And it's not to discount the lessons in the book because I think they're still there. But I also think there was an opportunity for me to take greater responsibility for myself and my role in that relationship. So, yeah, like it's and I think this goes beyond romantic relationships too. Like so many humans, my old self included. Like it's so easy to put the blame for why we're not happy on the things and people outside of us, whether it's our family or the stock market, like all these kind of outside influences. And we don't realize that we create our reality with our own thoughts and how we show up in the world.

Britt [00:09:42] That's incredible. You got me laughing. Think about my own journey with my book, too. And things I would rewrite and do differently. And it's funny how it's really just a moment in time. It's once it's printed on actual paper and it's done and said, you know, unless you're going to go back and release this and it's like it's really reflective of a moment in time. And so when people stop being like, Hey, what about this? You know, I don't know if a person would get out years later and they all that, you know, you got me thinking about the nature of forgiveness. And this is something that I think so many of us will wrestle with and chase our tail around this concept of how we forgive ourselves, how we forgive each other, what is forgiveness mean, what we get if we forgive? How is it a gift to ourselves? Could you talk some about what forgiveness has meant to you?

Ted [00:10:35] Yeah it's that's it's been big forgiveness. I think also it goes hand in hand with compassion. And that was a big part for me with my ex, like learning to forgive him and have compassion instead of pity I think was a big part of it. And for me. So I, I cut off all contact with my ex and have not spoken to him for four years and. You know, learning how to forgive someone that I can't that I'm choosing not to actually have that conversation with. And I think this also happens for people who are grieving the loss of a loved one. The big thing with parents, you know, when somebody loses a parent or grandparent and and wants to forgive them for the harm they may have caused in their life, but they can't have that conversation. You know, I think it's it's important to remember that forgiveness is for yourself first. And you can have that and you can experience that even if the other person isn't an active part of that. And, you know, it requires some some deep work within yourself to get to that place. It took me a while to get there, but when you can reach that point, it's it's a really beautiful thing and such a relief.

Britt [00:12:03] Yeah, it feels like we have to in certain ways start with the horror. And that's I mean, I just love the also. Maybe it's because it's what saved my life with my life preserver. So I just always kind of go back to that and, you know, the first step, this is kind of telling your story and owning that and claiming it and getting real as opposed to a kind of the spiritual bypassing that is so tempting. Oh, forgiveness is a gift I can give for myself. Let's start there, you know. Yeah, right. It is easy. Let me start with the forgiveness. And like you alluded to it, it's a lot of work. It's not just a light switch that you that you work on. Yeah. How long did it take you to get to this place where you could forgive your ex? Or is it been an evolution?

Ted [00:12:50] There's definitely been an evolution. I wouldn't say it was. It's been a gradual thing. I do remember that. So I did some group therapy work in 2020, and so that would have been about a year after I left him and as part of a Breathwork piece. So I went into that group work with the intention of wanting to feel more compassion for my ex and forgiveness. And I can still vividly remember there was a breathwork ceremony that I took a part of and. It just kind of it kind of fell into my body where I was like stepping into a place of compassion. There was a moment where I was so we're given these like 40 to £50 punching bags where we can kind of beat down and release anger and release whatever stress is coming up. And I was I was releasing oh, I might get a little emotional here. I was releasing a lot of anger toward him, which, you know, a lot of that had come up in the past as well. And then I realized that I didn't want to beat on that bag anymore. Like, it's it was a moment where this like, it just kind of struck me. And it was when the compassion, like, finally clicked and took took it was born. I guess if you want to say it that way. So the really beautiful moment.

Britt [00:14:18] Yeah.

Ted [00:14:19] And to your point, it's an ongoing it's an ongoing process, too. Like, it's not like that was the magic light switch, but I think that was a significant step in that direction.

Britt [00:14:29] And for me, in my experience, it's like nobody can tell you when it's time. It's something that happens through your body. And I think that everything spiritual starts with the body. So it's sort of like if the body's the antenna that somehow receives this message of divine guidance and then you're ready and and you move forward, whatever that means. But it's not like, you know, faking it. It's going to get you where you are pretending or just deciding or anything. It's like something changed in my body with each layer, each step in the motion. And so I resonate a lot with what you're saying. And, you know, I sort of think about the opposite also. It's like, okay, forgiveness is this really great gift we give to ourselves. Why are so many gay men so mean? To each other. I mean, it's like the number one complaint I hear when when guys come out is like, why you came in so mean to each other. I was like, We're going to have this brotherhood. It was going to be this permanent part of stuff. And it's like, Whoa, I'm not sure I like this community.

Ted [00:15:34] Yeah, well, unfortunately, like how people treat other people is a reflection of how they treat themselves. And so when I see gay men being catty and bitchy and making fun of people, it it hurts me to not only see how they're kind of putting that outside of them, but also I'm like, okay, so what does that look like for you behind closed doors? Like, what are your own thoughts and feelings that you're putting back onto yourself? And that ties back to what I shared before around, you know, not accepting themselves for who they are and all of that.

Britt [00:16:14] Our internal monologues can be so caustic and abrasive and corrosive. And I think about that, too. And it's like when you witness that behavior online or in the physical world, it's just like you can't help but think like, oh my gosh, what if you're saying that to a to a friend or a stranger? Like, what do you say to yourself? Oh, my gosh, It's really heart rending.

Ted [00:16:41] Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's interesting how it manifests differently for different people. So if we go back to the relationship with me and my ex, for the most part, I was not mean to him or abusive, but, you know, I had my moments. But for the most part, like the dynamic was he would say mean things to me and kind of be in attack mode towards me when both of us in our own heads were being abusive to ourselves. And so it's interesting how, like, it doesn't always go both ways. His his way of coping with it is to be the outwardly abusive person. Whereas for me it was it was taking it and being kind of the quote unquote victim in the situation. So in my case, it's like I, I attracted someone into my life who treated me like I treated myself. And in his case, he attracted someone who he could treat the way he treated himself. And it's different for different people. You know, there's when gay men are being catty and bitchy and all that stuff, like there's the person who is the entire organizer and then the person who's receiving that. And sometimes, like I said, it goes both ways and sometimes it doesn't. And that's when people, you know, the opportunity has to realize, like, are you really a victim in this situation by receiving that kind of talk from someone? Or do you what like what is your responsibility in this situation for taking care of yourself?

Britt [00:18:26] That's a lot of deep stuff. I mean.

Ted [00:18:30] That's what I'm here for.

Britt [00:18:32] That's fantastic. You know, I also I was thinking like. How was our collective community response to the trauma of street supremacy, whether it's growing up in the closet, whether it's being physically abused, emotionally tortured, spiritually abused, whatever it is by straight people because of our sexual orientation, our queerness, whatever, depending on how we identify. I wonder if. If in certain relationships, often with our parents or family, if we feel we don't have the agency or we cannot afford. To love ourselves in the way that you just so beautifully described. If that trauma then kind of contorts. Warps the contours of our life and changes our response to long term and maybe creates some of the hang ups that you kind of alluded to. So if I am tortured by my family because of my sexual orientation, just making an example of things that I perceive that I cannot afford to confront them, to have a catharsis, to ask them to hold the cost of their bigotry and the impact on my life, then maybe I take it out on people that I feel that I relationships that hold more trust my children or my coworkers or staff or my significant other or whoever that might be. And that might be kind of as we're circling the airport here, I'm like, why are gay guys so mean? It might be that might be another company. You laid out a lot of great components. Maybe this is another threat as well as because society in some cases has been quite cruel to us and we haven't known how or had the agency for love ourselves through that. And so it's kind of warped our sense of of forgiveness, love and and frankly, community.

Ted [00:20:42] Yeah. I think, you know, a lot of that dynamic comes from this ingrained belief that because of those outside, outside influences, particularly when you're growing up, you know, this conclusion that I'm not worthy of love. And so again, different people respond to that in different ways. But in some cases, in a lot of cases, there are people and this is not just for gay men, but you know, others as well, like I'm going to take out that self-loathing on other people. And what that does is it further pushes people away. And it it it, you know, further underlines and creates that reality of I'm not worthy of love. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy by pushing those you care about away from you.

Britt [00:21:32] Hmm. So we just add in the queer response to love. You know, it's I think under the best of circumstances, it can feel awkward when somebody looks at us with. Total abject love of neurons. Selfless love of neurons. It can feel like you bring up all sorts of stories of unworthiness, like like you mentioned. And then if we've experienced trauma, maybe we don't know how to hold that energy. And so it kind of spills over awkward or even malicious ways. And like you're saying, it's like can be a weird spiral where not only is it self-fulfilling, but things get worse over time because we become so isolated. We don't know how or are unwilling or think we cannot afford in some way to ask for help. So I guess as a leader in the community, it's like, what is our responsibility, our opportunity to entice queer people to reach for help and create safe spaces for them without just running around and flipping on life's light switches and crossing their fingers. They know.

Ted [00:22:59] Yeah. And it's a tricky thing because and it's been part of my journey of like how I can show up as a leader and a coach in this, in this space and be that loving, safe space for people and educate as well. But what I have found is that, you know, everybody has their own individual journey and for a lot of people it takes some sort of aha light bulb moment of realizing my life is not working for me and I want to do something different and. There's only so much that outside influences can do to create that moment for someone. It really it comes down to the own individual experience of what it's going to take for you to have that shift in wanting to create something different for you. For me, it was this like blockbuster movie where the rock bottom in an ICU for a week with my ex going through alcohol withdrawal and just a complete nightmare for me to wake up and realize this isn't working. And what I would love for people to experience and realize is that you don't have to get to this, like, horrific situation. To have that moment. Like there were so many opportunities I had and the previous 15 years leading up to that, where I could have said, like, enough is enough. And, you know, for me it was I had these kind of like short bursts of energy of like, okay, this is enough. I am not going to do this anymore. We're going to have a conversation and things are going to change and things might change for like a week or two. But then they would be back to where they were. And I just didn't have the courage or sometimes even the awareness to be like, okay, wait. Like, we had this conversation. Things were going to change. They're not changing. We're back to where we are and like to to keep that momentum going forward. So, yeah, it's hard to answer that question because it's such an individualized experience. And I wish I could tell everyone listening to this and everyone not listening to this, that they're worthy of love and that they, you know, they're worthy of happiness and having a good life. But ultimately, it's up to them to create that. Yeah. And of course, there's us who are leaders in this community, and there's many like us who are sources of support and safety to answer questions whenever the person is like, okay, I don't know what I need to do, but I know that my life is not working for me and I want something different. Now what? I'm happy to have that conversation with anybody. But you got to have the first two step, those first two statements on your own. And I can't give that to you.

Britt [00:26:19] No, no. Oh, yeah. You know, I was thinking about the first time I met you, and, you know, here we are today having a cerebral conversation and kind of thoughtful and contemplative. So when I first met you, you were being very social with the good people. And I. I remember distinctly, because you were so radiant. You had so much joy and vibrancy and vitality in that specific moment, at least the way I painted in my mind years later. But the way that the story that I've written in my head is like, Oh my God, look at this guy. It's so vital and live and free and fun. Where did that come from? Or am I just totally leftfield? I just make something up.

Ted [00:27:06] Yeah. No, I love that you say that, because I've definitely had an evolution ever since then, and I can talk about that too. But yeah, so you and I met I'm assuming you mean in December at that conference, December of 2019, when we met in person. So that would have been five months after I left my ex. And so I'd been living alone for five months and like, things were still very fresh, but. You know, it's I had been doing a lot of work with my new coaches at the time and still seeing a therapist and consuming all the self-help books I could get my hands on. I had really made. My commitment to myself, a number one, like my number one priority, because what I had decided is I am never going back to that old way of being. I am going to completely shift and change my relationships with other people from the inside out, particularly romantically. Like I'm never going to have that kind of long term partnership again. And it was, you know, when we met in December, that was a few months after I had really discovered what happiness felt like for the first time in my entire life. I was 32 years old, and, you know, I had a decent childhood. I didn't have a lot of trauma. I had a very loving family. But I grew up in a small town and was teased for being gay. And I had, you know, some stuff that I went through. I didn't have a lot of friends. I was very lonely as a kid. So there was some pain there. And so I didn't have a lot of friends until I actually met a girl and dated a girl for four years in high school. And we had a circle of friends. And I kind of finally met my tribe once I got to high school. Right. And but even then, like, I had this underlying secret that I didn't want to tell people. And that, you know, so my girlfriend and I actually, like, worked through some stuff with my about my sexuality together, which involved a lot of pain and hurt and kind of degrees of betrayal and all the things. She and I are actually very, very good friends now and very close. But at the time that was very challenging. So my point in saying all that is, you know, shortly after high school, I got into that 15 year relationship. And so I had these kind of moments of what I thought was happiness, but I didn't really know what it was or what it felt like. And. Often times, especially in those 15 years, moments of happiness were short lived and often cut short with a moment's notice. And so I had I had grown to like fear being happy because I knew that it would be taken away from me. And then once I really started to prioritize myself and my own healing. I can still remember the moment I was out for a jog on an after random afternoon and just enjoying the freedom of I can do whatever the fuck I want whenever the fuck I want. And I'm feeling so good in my body, like just being myself and not having to worry so much about another person. Like I can just be focused on myself. Yes, I think I don't know if I paused while I was jogging, but I still remember having the thought of like. Oh, my God. Is this what happiness feels like? Like, this is awesome. And that kind of carried through, like, certainly those months of, like, peeling back the biggest layers of codependency and. My role in that relationship, like all that stuff. Like, it's not like I was all like pie in the sky. Happy, joyful rainbows and unicorns. Sort of like fairy tale. But I had this, like, consistent level of like, life is really good. And so that's the energy that you saw when you met me. Is that like, basically, like self-discovery and discovering who I was and what it meant to be happy and creating all these new amazing connections that I didn't know where possible. Um, there was a lot that went into the joy that you saw. In my expression.

Britt [00:32:01] That's really beautiful. Where I kind of missed out was like, How did you get to that moment when you're running and you felt so happy? Like it was it like all the work with the therapist or was it the, you know, the the forgiveness with your partner or was it just everything kind of working in concert?

Ted [00:32:20] Yeah, I hadn't gotten to the forgiveness piece yet. That was about a year later. There was all of that kind of together. So I was working with a therapist. I had joined the coaching program and, you know, consuming the self-help books and it was this. I think where it came from was this sense of freedom. Like, I'm only responsible for myself. And I don't have to be so consumed with worry and pain and sadness and grief about another person. Because I you know, I had started three months before I left My ex is when I started therapy. And I still remember those three months and a few months after that where. 60 out of 60 minutes of my therapy sessions were spent talking about him. And not about me, because, you know, see, you talked about sex addiction. Like my addiction was to him. My addiction was on another person. You can have a relationship addiction. That's what codependency is. And I since I can still remember and my very first session with my therapist, she said, So just like your husband is addicted to alcohol, you were addicted to him or know what that meant at first. But I very quickly realized what she meant. And even then, once I had that awareness, I would go into sessions and and I would sit down and I'd be like, okay, I don't want to talk about him the whole time. Like I want to talk about me. And she'd be like, Okay, great. But the conversation would end up there anyway because I had like, it just was this compulsion that I had of like seeing him as my source of how I felt, whether it was happy or stressed or frustrated, whatever it was. So I, you know, I had this codependent kind of rescuing mentality that if I could just make him happy. Or make him feel good. Then I could feel good. And it took a while for me to unravel that and realize, like, that's not how it works. And for me, our lives were so enmeshed and like, it became very clear that the most loving thing for me to do for not only myself, but for him too, was to leave and to cut off contact because there was no way. Despite my attempts to try and make things better with my new awarenesses and things like that. You know, the willingness was not on his side, and so it made the most sense and was the most loving for me to. To detach. And then once I did that, I still thought about it a lot. But it was much easier for me once he was out of my life and out of my daily. Awareness and you know what was going on for me that I could finally start to like individual, individualize myself and pull apart from that very enmeshed relationship.

Britt [00:35:45] That we talked about the gay man, Damien responds to love. It's almost like you're outlining in some ways the gay male response to trauma and homophobia. And, you know, it's. Resulted in a number of clichés like the best little Boy in the World Things book that came out decades ago describing a gay man's response to homophobia that can lead to outsized control issues like, Oh shit, I am this thing that is unspeakable, destined to be consigned, to thrown out of society, consigned to the debris and whatever. And it's like I have to control this little sphere that I'm in and everybody in that if they're going to come in my entire social orbit, then it's like I have to move the chess pieces around the board. Otherwise it's overly threatening. The chaos, the brutality with society is overwhelming for my nervous system, and so I cannot afford to let go and relinquish. And and I'm speaking from my personal experience in that realm, and it resonates with me or not, but it's like so many of us, I think in folks listening to this will resonate. It's a cliché for a reason among gay men where we kind of clamp down on life as a desperate attempt to gain some sort of self-empowerment because we didn't find fuel enough agency as children didn't feel supported in love. There was no cultural continuity. There were no dissemination of conditions in the queer culture. There was no welcoming committee. We were just kind of left to the wolves and had to invent or send some of a for some of us, not all. For some of us, our response was to clamp down and control.

Ted [00:37:36] Yeah. Yeah. And I think. You know, gay men find different areas of success. So I think that's why a lot of gay men have such strong careers, for example, because it's something that they can control. It's something that they can use their heads, their minds to apply such, you know, brilliant talents that they have, you know. But a lot of times, you know, that the professional areas that that gay men are so successful in are very different from the relationships. And again, whether it's romantic or friends or family or whatever, like. You don't. For someone to have a successful, healthy relationship, it's not all going to come from the head. It's not something that you figure out. It's why I smile. Because there's so many gay men out there who are. Like, you know, millionaires because they're so good at what they do professionally. But when it comes to dating, they just can't figure it out. And they're not just they're just not having the success. And it's because they're trying to use that those same patterns of logic and figuring things out from the head versus like opening their heart. Because where they know that that place of of opening your heart is something that's scary and something that in the past has been trampled on. And to your point, like, it's it's very hard. It can be very hard to open yourself up when the people around you are not fully loving you and accepting you. It's much easier whenever you do feel loved and accepted by other people. You know, for me, like it was, I feel like it was maybe kind of a unique experience because when I came out, it was relatively smooth. But the years leading up to that of my own acceptance of myself were very, very dark. And I still like. There's definitely there were definitely shreds of like self-loathing and shame that stuck with me for a long time. And I think I was expecting rejection from my family or like, expecting really. I don't know that I expected explosive conversations with them, but like, I didn't expect the reception that I got. And so there was a lot of fear baked into it as well. But, you know, obviously my experience is very different from a lot of gay men and queer people out there whose whose families did not accept them or love them for who they are. And I feel like that adds a whole other layer of complexity and difficulty in someone growing to love and accept themselves whenever the people around them are just kind of reinforcing what's on the inside.

Britt [00:40:42] So I can understand why that person I met in 2019 was floating on air. Because it sounds like maybe you were experiencing a lot of relief from Lisa, and so you were feeling lighter than you had maybe in a while. Where has that gone since in the intervening years? Like, how have you cultivated this sense of vibrancy and vitality? Interpersonal.

Ted [00:41:11] Yeah, it's been an interesting ride because I have continued to prioritize, you know, my healing, my growth, my self. And, uh, you know, I have also discovered new layers of challenge for myself. And so what happens when you're on a healing journey is it's I see it as kind of an upward spiral. And when you come back to one side of the loop, like you might be facing the same thing that you thought you had cleared and thought you had changed from, you know, months or weeks or years prior. And so I've got some of that going on where like. There are still little shreds of codependency that are popping up for me that I didn't think were there. And when the awareness comes up, I'm like, Holy shit, I thought I was done with that. But it shows up in a new and different way. And so I get to look at that and see what to do about it. To clear it again further. And it's interesting because I would say 2019, 2020, kind of heading into 21, I was I was very happy, very joyful. And in the last couple of years, it's those I would say those things are not the constant for me anymore. And it's because I'm going through some really deep shifts and discovering who I am. I will say that my relationships are more satisfying than ever. I'm in a long term relationship with the guy now who we've been together for almost a year and a half. He moved in. We moved in together. It's the healthiest, most thriving relationship that I've ever experienced, and he's done a lot of work on himself. And so that has kind of led us to be attracted to each other and to have a really healthy relationship. And in my friendships, I'm showing up more powerfully and more of kind of who I am and setting loving, healthy boundaries. I'm spending a lot more time by myself. And so that has created some interesting dynamics where I used to be so social and like filling my calendar with lunches and dinners and parties and all the things because I had that freedom and wanted to share my love and happiness and joy and laughter with with everybody. And now I'm seeing the importance of slowing down and really cultivating a connection with the divine, with God and with myself. And so that has created some interesting dynamics. And pulling back from how much I show up in my relationships with my friends and even with my partner and the joy and happiness piece like. It's an interesting thing. I do think that I have an inner sense that I am meant for big things in this life. I don't know what that means. I don't know if that means being well known in the kind of self-help spiritual world or if it's more like behind the scenes. I don't know. Like, I don't know what big means in that sense. But for me to get there, there's like a lot of pieces that, you know, I'm kind of going back to that spiral like that. I continue to find, ah, for me to look at and to heal and release. And that has not always been a pretty pie in the sky. Unicorns jumping over rainbows journey. It's been painful at times. It has been scary at times. And there's there's not always that kind of happy, joyful giddiness that comes with it. I will say that even though a healing journey can be all those things in terms of challenge, it can simultaneously be joyful. Like you can simultaneously feel joy while you're also going through sadness and anger and grief and all the things. You know, I had. One of my cats that I had had for almost 17 years. So he was with me through a lot in my adult adulthood and went through I mean, he was with me through almost the whole relationship with my ex. And then. The beginning years of my healing journey and independence. And he passed away back in February. And amidst crying my guts out and sadness and grief. I felt joy at the same time and gratitude that I was able to feel it. So deeply like it was a really beautiful experience to be able to, you know, to hurt so much because I loved him so much and because he meant so much to me. And a lot of people avoid feelings of pain and grief and sadness because they're so uncomfortable and, you know, not wanting to experience that. But there's actually a lot of beauty that you can experience by allowing yourself to to actually to fully feel those things.

Britt [00:46:49] Yeah. You know, earlier, I painted a bleak portrait of gay life. But, you know, it's also can be thrilling. And the fact that we, in large part, operate out of societal norms and are relieved of society's life screw ups. Back in the day, marriage was not an option. Having kids was an option. Even though those things are now definitely options in all sorts of different ways for for gay men and queer people in general. Lots of us choose not to go down this path for all sorts of different reasons. And I was wondering, what are some ways that you love differently than maybe the sitcom version of Heteronormative Love? Or that your clients do or that you've witnessed in the world? As we continue to create space and take up space for queer people and gay men to be our true selves, Not some version, you know, not just the wacky next door neighbor grabs local color to the straight person's life, but to actually be us fully complex, realized people and characters or whatever. Like what? How how are you living now?

Ted [00:48:16] Yeah, I love that question. It's actually one of the things that I love most about the relationship with my partner is that we have co-created something that really, truly aligns with what we both want and not. It's not based on what societal norms are or what people think it should be or what we think it should be based on the things around us. So some unique things about us is we have separate bedrooms and separate bathrooms. We actually he so he moved in in February. So five months ago, we other than we have not. We have not yeah, we have not slept in the same bed for five months and it's been amazing. Like we still have our you know, and we still have lots of great sex and that still very much is a thing and physical connection. But I had said, like I, I enjoyed my independence and freedom so much for those few years of my healing journey that was like, I don't even know if I want to live with anybody again. Like, I love that song because that was the first time I'd ever lived alone. I went from my parents home to the college dorm to living with my ex-husband, so I didn't live alone till I was 32. And then whenever I am like this, this is fucking awesome. Like. So, you know, when the idea of us living together came up, I was like, okay, checking in with myself. Like, okay, how do I feel about this? Because I don't want to do it just out of convenience or, you know, because it's the next step like forcing that on us. And what I saw was like, okay, so as long as we can have separate beds, I think that's all I really need. And in addition to what's important for both of us is having a good amount of time solo. So we actually have separate living spaces as well with separate like TVs and comfortable couches and whatever that whenever we want to when we want a solo night or a solo afternoon on Sunday, we can do that. And there's no like judgment or pressure from the other person. Like that's, that's the meantime, that's the recharge time and then we'll come back together either later that day or the next day or whenever it is. And I have found that spending time apart, as I talked about before, around like me needing a lot of time to myself, has been really good for both of us. Other unique things we do have an open relationship. And for us, that works part of part of what I discovered on my years being kind of out on my own was I. I really embrace the idea of fluidity in relationships and not like meeting someone and. Like promising forever to them. Because what I would say is like, I don't even know where my life's going to be in six months from now, let alone 60 years. So, like, how can I promise that we're going to be together forever? And that's not to say that when challenges come up, we're not going to work through them. I'm not going to just bail at this. That's a sign of the first challenge. But, you know, because I am on such a committed path to growth and like discovering my true self. I still don't know if he and I are going to be a good match like aligned in that way forever. And so that's another piece for us is. You know, like, I don't expect us to get married because because of that, like having that kind of openness to whatever life brings us and not kind of constricting ourselves to forever that we we don't know how that's going to unfold. And the open relationship has been really great, too, because. It. It has allowed us a sense of freedom to just explore other relationships with other with curiosity. And sometimes that includes a sexual component and sometimes it doesn't. We actually like. So it's even though we have an open relationship, it's been monogamous for the last almost a year now. Just because I haven't really had much of a desire to explore elsewhere. But to have that. Freedom is helpful because it doesn't it there's not this like tunnel vision of. It has to be just us. There's more flexibility with it.

Britt [00:53:17] Oh, that is such a beautiful picture that you paint. You had me in separate bathrooms. I'm like, Is that legal? No, that was. I thought that was against the law. You need to play recommend.

Ted [00:53:30] Yeah, I know. It's amazing. Mom or dad.

Britt [00:53:35] It up. I've been married for 14 years and have like, Oh, my God, Separate bathrooms. Why did I never think of this?

Ted [00:53:44] Oh, I highly recommend. It's pretty great.

Britt [00:53:49] Although mother yourself married, liberated you got sober about. There was some stuff that's so awesome. Really. I mean, that's what the whole point is. It's like if we're going to live by these contrived norms thoughtlessly, for some of us, they might be. Who are they making along with who we really are. But if we're just going to do it reflexively, thoughtlessly, what's the point of being gay then? It's like the whole point is that we get to, you know, that's a whole upside. It's like we're unencumbered, we're unbothered. It's like, you know, we get to make our rules and paint with so many more colors. When you think about especially the straight men box, the guy code that these poor guys live with, it's just so bleak and so sad and overwhelming. And that's like, yes, we endure a lot as as queer people and gay men, but at least we don't got that. At least not to do with that. Yeah. You know, it's like I can, I can do whatever I want.

Ted [00:54:52] Yeah. And that's the opportunity. Like, that's what I said. Like one of my favorite things about our relationship is being that example of you can do whatever you want. Like if, if you truly want to get married and have kids and have the white picket fence and that is like in your heart and gut, like that's what that's what is right for me, then do that and enjoy it. And like, you know, more power to you, but don't do those things if that's not really what you want. I see so much like subconscious limitation and people that like they don't want to admit that that's not the life I want, but I'm going to have to. That's what you do. So that's just what I'm going to do. Like kind of, you know, just, yeah, that kind of unconscious choice. And like, I just I want I would love to provide an example to help people to open their eyes, open their horizons, and expand that just a little bit to see, like.

Britt [00:55:50] Exact society exactly the cost from for you, for you living this way. Do you deal with like people like getting upset that this is how you live and that you're so that you get separate bathrooms and getting infuriated with all your bathrooms?

Ted [00:56:08] No, I have not really gotten pushback and. Yeah. I don't know if that's, you know, having rainbow hair, which you can kind of sort of see is another just like kind of light example of like, you know, make your hair color whatever you want, like who cares? And all these, like professional standards around that, around like you have to look a certain way, all that kind of bullshit. And it's like, I think the more you own your decisions and don't really care what other people think, the less you're probably going to even get pushback from people on your decisions. And then when they do, if they do, it's going to impact you less, if at all, by having to explain yourself like you don't have to explain yourself just all your life.

Britt [00:57:00] You know, the water off a duck's back in a way, it's like, you know, yeah, when you don't see people's permission, they tend to kind of keep their judgments to themselves. And not a lot of stuff is unless they're really acting out, they kind of keep that stuff to themselves like they do. It's like it's almost amusing in a way. You're like, Sometimes I feel like cause I've been gay a long time, sometimes I feel like when I encounter prejudice, it's actually kind of amusing. It's like, Really? That's what you think or that's what you're coming to me with. I'm like, I cannot be bothered. Look.

Ted [00:57:32] Yeah, it's such a limited way of thinking that. It's kind of sad. Like, I it's hard for me not to judge those things because the way I see those comments and those opinions is it's a limitation. It's a limited belief about the world and the people around you. And like you can just open your mind like there's so much more available to you. So preaching to the choir. I know.

Britt [00:58:00] Yeah, the whole Auntie Mame. Aunt Mame quote. "Life's a buffet, but most of us are starving to death." That's what I was thinking of. Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, Ted, you're definitely not starving to death. It's been such a joy to talk with you today and catch up and see you thriving and vibrant and vital and alive and modeling that for others. And I hope everybody reads your book, Health you know, healthy me happy. We it's it's fantastic. And it's you know, I think you're really going to change a lot of lives. We'll put, of course, links to all of Ted's socials in the show notes and a link to his Amazon where you can buy the book really easily. That way you don't have to jot anything down on the fly, so make sure you stop by the show notes for all of that. Ted, thank you for joining the podcast today. It was so wonderful to see you. I really appreciate it.

Ted [00:58:54] Thank you, Britt. It's been great to be here.

Britt [00:58:56] Absolutely. All right, everyone, you have done it. You have made it through yet another hour of not going quietly. We thank you so much. We could not do this show without you. Not Going Quietly is the podcast for heartbroken viewers and optimists all over the world, for we like Syrian troops in the name of radical happiness. I hope you enjoyed this hour. We really love you. We mean it. And take care. Have a great day. Bye. You've been listening to. Not Going Quietly with co-hosts Jonathan Beale and Britt East.

Jonathan [00:59:31] Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose and joy.

Britt [00:59:39] Check out our show notes for links, additional information, and episodes located on your favorite podcast platform.