Sacred Intimacy with Don Shine

Britt East [00:00:02] Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast where we inspire growth, beat down biases and get into all sorts of good trouble with your host, Britt East. No topic is off limits as we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. So get ready to join us for some courageous conversation, because not going quietly starts right now. Hey everyone! Welcome to Not Going Quietly, the podcast for outraged optimists and heartbroken healers all over the world, where we surface life's searing truths in the name of radical togetherness. I'm your host, Britt East, and I have such a fantastic featured guest for you today. I cannot wait for you to meet him. So let's dive right in. Dawn Shine is a healer, sacred intimate body worker and coach. His focus is on helping people connect to the abundant and infinite supply of healing energy that lives in each of us. Don works with his clients to explore ways to honor their bodies, expand their capacity for pleasure, and discover pathways toward living their lives to the fullest, open hearted, and authentic potential. Don has studied multiple modalities, including. The Wheel of Consent, is a certified Myers-Briggs type Practitioner, and is a faculty member, with the Body Electric School hosting many in-person and online retreats and workshops. Oh my God, I cannot wait to get into this! Don, welcome to the podcast. How the hell are you today?

Don Shine [00:01:35] Oh doing great. Thanks for having me, Britt. Did you write that or did I write that?

Britt East [00:01:39] You wrote that. You wrote back. I'm just your PR agent today.

Don Shine [00:01:45] Yeah. Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

Britt East [00:01:49] Yeah, yeah. It's wonderful to meet you and get to know you better. I can't wait to hear more of your story. How are you called to do this work?

Don Shine [00:01:56] Yeah. Well, you know, I'm actually celebrating ten years, of, taking my first workshop. You mentioned Body Electric. That's who I now teach with. But it was it's ten years ago that I actually took my first workshop. And, it, it radically changed everything for me. You know, I lived a pretty good life up until that point. But, you know, I think in terms of, living the most authentic version of who I am and, sort of, you know, I carried around a lot of body shame. I carried around a lot of insecurity. Just my own sense of worth was really kind of low at that point in my life. And, you know, the work radically changed that. It just sort of gave me access to seeing an opportunity and seeing life in a in a totally different way. And so, you know, you could say, I certainly dedicated my life to bringing that access and bringing in that little open door for other people. And, so I felt a definite calling to do that. And it's something that really nourishes me. And and I'm very honored. I'm honored to do it today.

Britt East [00:03:01] Was there a specific moment where you heard that call?

Don Shine [00:03:05] Yeah. I, you know, I, I, we, I mean, I'm going to get in the weeds around body electric, but the first workshop is called Celebrating the Body Erotic. That's the first class that you take is sort of the intro class has been taught for over 40 years at this point. And, you know, at the end of that workshop, I just I just saw life in a completely different way. I saw all of my opportunities change. And and then the way I choose to live and the way I choose to be in the world. And I immediately signed up for another workshop, which was like just a couple of months later. And then the middle of that workshop is there's an opportunity to really kind of create, you know, your own ritual around what you want to pull into your life, what you want to draw in to your life. And I knew at that point that this there was nothing else. There was nothing else that could compare to this. And, and I felt a definite calling. And, part of that was kind of, you know, my, my work name, you know, and I'm revealing a little bit here, but my, my work name, my spirit name, if you want to call it that, is Donnie Ray sunshine. That's what that's what I was named at this workshop. So that's been truncated to Don shine. And it's just defined me. It's defines how I walk in the world and how I choose to be in the world. And I think anyone who knows me pre that workshop and post that workshop all sort of say, wow, you're you're a different person. What who who is this? And and I think in a positive way, you know, and it was it's, it's been a big part of my life.

Britt East [00:04:39] That's absolutely incredible. So tell us some about tell us some about body electric. Been around for 40 years, which is just absolutely amazing. What's the mission of the organization? How are you involved? You know, tell us some about it.

Don Shine [00:04:51] Yeah. So Body Electric began 40 years ago in the in the Bay area in San Francisco. And 40 years ago, we were in the height of the Aids crisis. And, a man by the name of Joseph Kramer, who was actually at that point in the, at some point in his life, was on track to becoming a Catholic priest, began to see a different ministry, essentially, you know, seeing a lack of connection and really, our, the LGBTQ community, it's particularly gay men in, in San Francisco, you know, being decimated by. By this illness and largely being left, to, to die without any, you know, sort of compassion, love, kindness, touch. You know, touch was certainly, something that was, not happening because there was, there was a lot of misinformation around how the disease was spread. And so, you know, so Joseph sort of combined some of what he knew and what he gathered over the course of his life and combined elements of of, you know, several spiritual traditions, Buddhism, Daoism, Native American traditions, and, tantra traditions to weave together this experience. That's that's called celebrating the body erotic. And really, the idea was to bring compassion, to bring touch, to bring intimacy back into the community when this was largely, you know, the CDC was was telling, you know, people don't have sex, don't don't connect with anyone, don't even, you know, and just without any information about exactly how, you know, this, this disease was spread. So, you know, there are ways to have sex that don't involve any sort of fluid transmission, don't involve penetration, don't involve some of the typical ways that we, you know, inhabit sex in our bodies. And so in some ways, body. Yeah. So that's getting in the weeds of the history. But if you ask anyone like what is, what is what is body electric about, everyone is going to have a very different definition. But for me, what it gets into is, is essentially, you know, examining our habits, examining the ways that we inhabit pleasure, how we inhabit our bodies. We just sort of walk in the world, and, and sort of examines that in a different way and, and sort of, how we, we choose to be in connection and intimacy with each other. How do we choose to be in connection and intimacy with ourselves? How do we, as young, you know, boys and girls and, and and everyone in between? How do we learn how to be in pleasure in our bodies? How do we learn how to engage in sex in a way that doesn't feel somehow shadowy or, you know, somehow a full of shame or fear or guilt? How do we release those things and really bring a sense of celebration and sacredness to our bodies? Because our bodies are sacred, all parts of our body are sacred. The way that we choose to engage in our bodies is sacred. And, and so when you look at it that way, it's hard to it's hard to go back. It's hard to change. And, and part of that sacredness is knowing that we are in choice and consent in our bodies, and being and feeling a sense of safety or feeling a sense of, worthiness to be safe and not to just accept whatever comes our way. And so, you know, for many people who walk into this work, sorry, I'm going on and on, but for many people who, who, who walk into this work, you know, you we, we all sort of learn about sex, we learn about masturbation, we learn about self-pleasure in, you know, lots of different ways, some ways that are kind of funny stories. Some are, you know, stories that, you know, just I stumbled into it. I certainly did, you know, you get information from the kids on the playground, from teachers, from priests, from, you know, from clergy, from people all over, you know, with, with their own sort of version of what sex is supposed to be. And then some people experience sex for the first time and pleasure through, through a series of trauma, you know, through it, through lots of trauma informed ways. And so when we, you know, what we're looking at is really taking a step back and saying, okay, you know, our bodies are sacred, our bodies are worthy of joy, are worthy of celebration, our bodies are worthy of connection. And, even connecting to the most, divine parts of who we are, our connection to, to the divine. However you choose to define that without any sort of religion attached to it is, anyway. And these traditions and the traditions that Joseph pulled together have been practiced for thousands and thousands of years. So. Yeah, I feel like I'm rambling here.

Britt East [00:10:00] No, no.

Don Shine [00:10:01] Is that sense? Yeah.

Britt East [00:10:02] We want you to ramble. You're the one with the wisdom. So I'm so excited to learn more. I've never been.

Don Shine [00:10:09] I can go on and on and on.

Britt East [00:10:11] I've never been to a body electric workshop, so I'm really excited to to hear more about it. And I can't help but wonder, like, you know, in some of my reading, it sounds like maybe, you keep as a facilitator and the folks who run it keep things kind of mysterious and vague so you can have a you a uniquely person. Surreal experience when you enter the room and be kind of a blank slate, and you will correct me if I got any of that wrong. But you know, I can't help but wonder, like what happened. You know, given what you can share, what you're willing to share, what happened in that first workshop for you. Like, it's kind of like this incredible catharsis. What was it? Was it something somebody said or there was a touch or was what happened?

Don Shine [00:10:49] Thank you. Yeah. To to to answer the first part. Yeah, we do purposely keep it vague because we want folks to come in with an open mind and the beginner's mind to just experience whatever happens. And when you begin, when you know too much, you begin to sort of pick it apart and I don't know if I can do this, but what we do tell folks is through the course of the weekend, and usually it's a two and a half day workshop, there are going to be elements of breath, movement and touch and and and intimate touch and connection, touch and all with, you know, consent and choice. My friend Jojo Bear has taught me this phrase, you know, choosing is more important than the doing. So no one's required to do anything. They're they're definitely on ramps and off ramps. But what I knew going into this and what, you know, this is a little bit of a teaser. At some point in the workshop, I was going to be, invited to be naked, to be naked in front of a group of people and to take my clothes off and into me. At that point in my life as a 40 year old gay man, there was nothing more terrifying to me than not just being naked, but taking my shirt off in front of a group of people was probably the most horrifying thing that I could think of that I could do. And when I say this, I. This is not an exaggeration in my mind. To me, taking my shirt off was was equivalent to committing a crime. It just it felt like something that I could genuinely be arrested for was taking my shirt off in public. And it was just the story. It's just my own projection. That was my own bullshit. Sort of. Oh, you said I could say that worse, but, it's it was just my own story that I was telling myself and no one else. And so I knew it was coming that weekend, and and and by the way, it's so beautifully crafted. It's not like you walk in the door and you take your clothes off, and it's not a free for all. Everything is sort of carefully planned, step by step by step in a sequential way. And it just happens in this way that when when you're doing it, you're thinking, okay, this is happening, and I'm not scared. I'm in control, I feel safe, I'm with people who care and love me and are not going to judge me. You know, at this point in the workshop, I felt that way. And it it when I stood in the room and I was I stood there naked and not everybody was undressed at that point because of the way the process works. But when everyone was, it just I did all of it, like all of that fear that I'd been caring for 40 years, all of that weight, all of the bullshit that I had sort of told myself, it's just gone. I like what what happened to me. How did this I'm standing here in my own beautiful body. My my body is is presented as sacred, is being treated as sacred. It is being, honored by these other people in the room. I'm honoring the other bodies in the room. And I'm seeing the person inside. Not not the costume. Not not what? They're not what they're wearing. Not even their their naked body. But I'm seeing this human being who is standing here in front of me and so vulnerable, standing so vulnerably in front of me. And yeah, you're asking the moment. That was the moment everything changed. And I think what I also discovered over the course of the weekend is nothing turns me on more than vulnerability. And when I and it's something that I, you know, I recognize it in myself when I'm vulnerable, I am I am probably the most authentic version of who I am. And when I'm standing in a room full of people who are being vulnerable and are the most authentic version of who they are, and it's not easy to access that. It's not easy to accept access that for a lot of folks. It's something that naturally came to me over my life. But I recognize, especially now that I've been teaching this for a couple of years, it's it's not easy. And so when people sort of give in over the course of the weekend and over this sequential sort of step by step process, people slowly, gently and eventually get to a place where, okay, all right, I'm willing to sort of let my guard down. I'm letting down all of the defenses, all the little soldiers that are in my body, that are standing guard and not letting anybody in. I can let them down, and I can say things that I've never said to anyone else I can share. This experience that probably I've never shared with anybody else. And it's it's a beautiful thing. One of the first exercises we do is to stand across from someone and just look at them in the eyes. Now, for some of your listeners, they might be like, oh my God, that is the most terrifying to come out, and I promise you. And for some people, that's the hardest part of the weekend. And for some people it's not at all. It's something that people can do easily. But when you do that, you really people are starting to see the real you and and in honor everything. And you don't have to hide or have to sort of put that, you know, have to live in that shame of who you are. Instead, it's celebrated. You're celebrating your body, all of it, and and who you are.

Britt East [00:16:15] Wow. That's amazing.

Don Shine [00:16:16] That's so. Yeah. So which point in that weekend was it that that just sort of made that clicked for me? I can't tell you, but I just I will never forget taking my clothes off. And let's just.

Britt East [00:16:27] Say it sounds like the naked part.

Don Shine [00:16:30] Yeah. Well, yeah, I think it was the naked part. And, and, you know, not being sexualized, not being sort of groped at not being, you know, just being loved and being appreciated and celebrated. And so. Yeah. So the naked part. Yeah.

Britt East [00:16:47] So you, you have this beautiful experience where you're fully seen literally and figuratively, and then you have to leave and go back to the real world. Well, third trombones. So what do you do? Like how do you retain that sense of empowerment and vulnerability in your everyday life once you leave this cradle of the workshop?

Don Shine [00:17:10] It's such a good question because it's. It's probably, you know, you're right. As soon as you leave, you've created this little microcosm, you've created this little community. And over and over I hear it, at the end of our last closing circle, I can't believe that this group of people came together. This group of strangers got so close, so quickly. And now what? Now what do I do? And, you know, my my experience, I had some really weird metaphysical things sort of happen that I can't explain. You know, I left, I felt like I was floating on a cloud. I'm driving along the highway with people who did not have the same weekend as I had, who were, you know, flipping me the bird. And I'm like, love you. You know, it's like I was just in this really beautiful space and, I, my car started acting up in this really weird way, and I'm like, that's okay. We'll take care of it. I'm just in this really good space. But as I say to, people who live with every great expansion will inevitably come a contraction. And it's certainly had, you know, about 3 or 4 days later and, you know, I'm home like, oh, no, now what? And it's important to stay connected to all of your typical resources at home therapy, you know, coaches with, getting massages, you know, getting touch, connecting to other partners connected to people and, and and finding it, you know, and when people leave our workshops, we give if they choose to, they don't have to a roster of everyone who is in the workshop. So a lot of times folks will reach out to each other to stay connected and and to remind each other, yeah, this is real, this is important. And so we invite people to come back to other workshops. You can either repeat the one that we did, find, you know, some we have advanced workshops that sort of build upon what we do in that first one, or connect to a sacred intimate, which is what I do. And so I work with people one on one to help kind of connect and release. Some of, you know, in one weekend, you're not going to suddenly, you know, you might have a transformative experience, you might not it might not work. And I can't say it's going to completely change your life the way it did for me. I can't predict what's going to happen for you, but I. I can't guarantee this, but I would, I would I would promise that there's at least some little nugget that is going to that door is just going to open a little bit. If you just keep going in and just leaning into it, as I say, you're you're, you know, the discoveries are endless. So I just tell people to just keep, keep going in that door and and finding your network, finding your resources. And if it's not there, go find it. And. Yeah, I can't help but wonder.

Britt East [00:20:08] You know, if you had some sort of predisposition for this work. You know, I was thinking, like, what led you to attend the workshop in the first place? And and then how did you, you know, activate your relationship with the sacred, you know, maybe years before you even went to the workshop in other fields. And maybe this was, you know, bringing this work to your body in a different realm or into a different sphere. Talk to some, talk with some about your your journey before you attended a workshop.

Don Shine [00:20:37] There is for a lot of my life, you know, especially once I hit puberty. I was really I was a very sexual kid. And even, you know, I had a very strong sex drive. And I spent a lot of my life feeling a lot of shame around that, feeling like there was something wrong or perverted with me. And, you know, and I grew up Catholic, and I remember specifically there was, you know, I had a teacher, I was in the eighth grade, and we had kind of a bunch of assholes in the class that I was in. And one day they were really giving the teacher a hard time, and some kid asked, you know, the teacher who was a nice person, but she had a she was at the end of a rope. And this kid said, well, how do you feel about masturbation or something like that? What do you think about jerking off? Something just to get a rise out of her. And I remember distinctly her response, and I'll never forget it because it still echoes in the back of my head, she said. I think that boys who masturbate have a serious mental illness.

Britt East [00:21:43] Oh my God.

Don Shine [00:21:46] And for this kid who was like masturbating ten times a day and like, loving it and like, really, you know, was just sexually charged, I was like, oh God, there's something wrong with me. And so I began sort of that process of just sort of pushing it down and pushing it down and down because I was I was a good boy. I didn't want to get in trouble. And, you know, when I came out as gay and. That wasn't an easy situation. I, you know, I had lots of therapy there. You know, there's, you know, trigger warning. I, you know, I had thought about in the ending things for myself and, you know, all of that was, was sort of informed by that because it was I don't I don't know how I can live in, in the good way, you know, with, with with this, with my, my sex body and, you know, and I met my partner and I was, you know, with my partner for 25 years, and, we lived a very heteronormative life. And so our sex was very quiet. It was, you know, we had a lot of sex. I don't, you know, but it was sometimes at the end of that, there were there were some Hail Marys and Our Fathers. And I'm so sorry, you know, at the end of every ejaculation and at the end of every orgasm. And so, yeah, you asked me what, you know, as far as what Body Electric did for me. Yeah, yeah, it got me naked. But then also to go to that extra step and to say, when I'm in my pleasure body, when I am achieving an orgasm, I, you know, it's, it's I, I don't say this lightly, but to me, it's the closest that I feel to to spirit. I feel to God. Where did I feel toward divinity? You know, we make this joke, but it's only kind of a joke when we say it's. It's no coincidence that when we're, you know, having an orgasm that people say, oh, God, oh, God. Because that's, you know, I why else does it feel that good while what could I know? I'm joking, but, you know, that's that's a big part of what you know, is part of what we teach is that it's, you know, this this goodness. There is there is a point to the goodness. There isn't. It isn't just to feel good. And when you bring intention, when you bring mindfulness to, to your sex, to, to how you engage in pleasure, especially in a consensual, loving way, it's. How could it be wrong? How could any of that be wrong? And so it's. Yeah, the before me and after me is very different. And and I choose to live in, you know, a very open, you know, I'm very open sexually and very open, you know, around, how I talk about sex and, and if people get, like, talking about it, then, you know, just sort of, begin, you know, shedding some of the shame and the layers that a lot of people carry around this and, you know, just try to find the joy and the love that that can come from it.

Britt East [00:24:56] Is there a cost associated with that? Are you punished in any way for this newfound freedom?

Don Shine [00:25:05] Wow. That's a really good question. You know. You know, I'm fairly new to this part of my journey in terms of just devoting my life to this. I worked in education for 25 years in my life, in higher education in Australia. I loved that part of my life. I was really good at it. I enjoyed it, had great connections there. By about two and a half years ago, I chose to sort of leave that behind and to begin pursuing sacred intimacy and pursuing, you know, teaching this work and then doing sacred intimacy as a living. Full time. And it's it's been a really beautiful ride. I've I've had some really wonderful experiences, and I'm really glad that I've done it. But in terms of the cost, you know, there's some people who just don't get it. There's some people who just aren't ready to hear it. And there are parts. There are people in my life, and part of that story is my own. You know, I certainly own that. You know, that, projections that I have around. Oh, my gosh, what what would that person think if they really knew what I was up to or if they stumbled upon this website or. Sorry, you know what? What would they say? And, more and more, I'm getting better about sort of, well, one day they'll get it. One day they'll see. One day they'll be ready. And when they're ready, I'll be happy to talk to them about it. But it's, you know, in terms of the cost, it's, that's one of them. Some sometimes it's, you know, I'm able to give and give and give to others. And sometimes it's like, hey, where's mine? And, I, I, you know, again, getting better about it. And I've got my own coaches and resources and therapists and energy healers in my life who, help me to stay grounded and stay energetically connected and balanced. That's the word I'm looking for.

Britt East [00:27:12] You know, we have a lot of healers who who are in our audience. And I think that's, one thing I try to make really explicit to them is the the utilization of healers by other healers to continually replenish and recede and restore, because that's the you know, the main thing I hear is, is burnout issues. And, you know, people struggling to, to maintain that balance. So it's so wonderful that you have that, that, I like to call it the glam squad behind you to support you and, and and keep you, fulfilled. You know, we've used some jargon and I want maybe I'm hoping you can maybe help define stuff for the audience. Like you mentioned, sacred intimacy and how our bodies are connected to the divine. So if you could pull that apart, and then I think you said pleasure body. Could you kind of break down some of these terms for us?

Don Shine [00:28:06] Well, I call myself a sacred intimate. And if you asked two different sacred intimates what that is, it can be very different things. But I, I describe it as creating a safe space for people to express their full, erotic self and, and, releasing the shame and the fear and the guilt associated with that. And so it involves some coaching. It involves, some, place to, some exercises and ways to just sort of begin to examine, like I said, the habits that we have around sex, the our ideas around sex, our ideas around intimacy and pleasure and how to, you know, again, change those habits and or to, you know, in some way, practice new ways of being in our bodies. If you think about the way that we learn how to masturbate, for example, it might be you might be still, informed by some of the circumstances in your life as a teenager. Like, for me, I didn't have a lot of privacy. So I had, you know, a single bathroom and a family full of six people. And so, I those, those habits of of masturbating quickly and holding my breath and not making any noise was, definitely something that I certainly carry on into. I'm turning 50 this year, and so. And there's always a goal at the end, right. And with pleasure of any kind. And so if you can sort of break those goals down and to realize when I'm in Self-pleasure, it doesn't have to include just these parts of my body, but it can include all parts of my body without a specific goal in mind and bringing some breath, bringing movement and bringing noise and and and being in pleasure that way. I, I moved to this gay campground, so going out to the woods is part of a part of my practice here, and I can do that here as well. So, that wasn't your question. Your question was for sacred intimacy. And so, that's I guess that's that's how I describe it. Is, is this you finding your own way into that? And so for some people, that looks like massage. What it looks like. Touch some people. That looks like, you know, like learning. Like what is what is the thing? How do I ask for what I want and how do I get it? How do I negotiate these things rather than just, just, getting whatever I can get my hands on, you know, and being desperate instead of being in a place of desperation, but instead being in a place of control and feeling like a sense of worthiness around asking for what you want and actually getting it. Not easy for folks, not easy to know what I want. And so how do I how do I do that long winded answer that's, that's sacred intimacy. What were the other two things? Your pleasure.

Britt East [00:30:52] Body.

Don Shine [00:30:54] Pleasure, buddy. So I, I guess I would describe that is just how I experience pleasure in my own body. How do I know that I am feeling good and what's actually happening in my body physiologically, emotionally, spiritually? When I'm in a state of pleasure? And it's not often that folks, you know, really examine that other than just being in that space and sort of knowing what turns me on. This turns me on, and I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do that. And again, nothing wrong with that. But when I can begin to just stand outside, it's a windy day. It's sunny. It's the first warm day in a long, long while. And if I stand outside with my shirt off in the sun and just be in my body and feel the wind on my body, and notice what that does in my body and how I can connect to the land and connect to nature and connect to everything all around me. That's a version of my pleasure body. And then when I, you know, engage with another person and, an intense, you know, connection with that person, you know, what's happening in my body then and how, you know, just just how do I live in this beautiful body that way? Does that make sense?

Britt East [00:32:17] Yeah, absolutely.

Don Shine [00:32:18] I'm noticing never actually defined it before.

Britt East [00:32:21] No, no, you did great. I'm noticing an irony there that I think is interesting. It's like, okay, when I think of sex and, you know, pleasure body or just being in my. But I don't necessarily think of the mind yet. I'm, you know, if I think of sex as being intrinsically sacred, then it sounds like what what, brings this, what creates sacred intimacy is mindfulness. So that's ironic. It's like the application of awareness to the experience my body is having is what helps make it transcendent, because it's intrinsically sacred. So when we talk about sacred intimacy, it's like, okay is intrinsically sacred, or then how is it any different? Well, it seems like and I want you to correct me, it seems like what you're saying is it's it's the element of mindfulness. I don't know, there's this whole Taoist kind of, background with body electric and maybe some of your other philosophies. I don't know, but am I in the right ballpark? Because it seems kind of weird. Yeah.

Don Shine [00:33:22] I mean, it's, mindfulness is certainly part of it bringing intention and, you know, and what I'm doing and awareness of what, you know, what what am I what am I going for here? What is it that I'm, I'm seeking? Is is there part of me that is, you know, a lot of the work that I do and a lot of the work body electric, especially in recent years. References the work of Doctor Betty Martin. I don't know if you're familiar with the wheel of consent. And recognizing who the pleasure is for and recognizing, you know, is this pleasure for me, is this pleasure for my partner? And am I in the space of taking pleasure, or am I in a place like giving or, you know, and so I won't go into the weeds too much around that, but just, you know, again, some of it comes back to just, you know, so many people that I know just, you know, especially in our app culture, you know, if you're downloading apps to, to, to hookup and in hookup culture is, is just taking whatever I can get, just taking whatever is here and, and just doing, you know, what are you into? Here we go. We're going to do that thing, or you do this thing, and then we're going to get to this place and great, it's over and done by. But I think you it's very transactional. And when you can take a step back and to really go and to really connect with another human being in a very spiritual, full, authentic way, it can be, it can it can really be transformative. It can really be expansive and to bring awareness and to bring genuine healing into your life and to to each other. And, you know, it's we say in the work we can bring healing to the planet. You know, considering, you know, that we are so often in this place of shadow, so often in this place of, of taking or, you know, and especially if you consider, you know, how much, assault and, and, and trauma exists in our lives, particularly as it relates to sex. A lot of people have had horrible experiences that really as it relates to sex. And so if we can teach people how to be in a place of mindfulness and a place of authenticity, versus being in this place of just taking and giving and just I got, I got to get to the place where I'm going to achieve this ejaculation. And if it doesn't, if that doesn't happen or if I can't get hard or if I can't do this thing, or if I can't do that thing, then I failed. And, you know, it's it doesn't have to be that way.

Britt East [00:35:58] Yeah. It's interesting to think of failing at pleasure. That's like, got to be a uniquely American concept. But you know what? What you got me thinking about was interrupting patterns. Whether it's a patterns that were that are continually foisted upon us as we all kind of swim through this soup of, you know, saturated by messages of street supremacy or the patterns that form through the conditioning of our experience. You know, as we, evolve and grow and transcend maybe some of the adverse moments and challenges in our life. It's almost like part of what you're doing or describing is a, the stillness and they, awareness, that is different than thought. It's more like the meditative, you know, in yoga, they talk about the cessation of the fluctuation of their minds, the stilling of the pond. So I'm getting this visual of like, you know, creating this, this field or this blank slate that, facilitates the slowing down and interrupting of autonomic responses and interrupting of behavioral patterns so that I can exist in the pure moment. Is that on the right track?

Don Shine [00:37:19] Yeah, to a certain extent, yes. And yet we also teach a lot of big breath movements and a lot of breath, and to move some of what's stuck in our bodies, it's a it's a very Kundalini sort of approach to things. And just breathing it up and breathing and stirring up emotions, stirring up a lot of of what makes us feel stuck. And so making noise and being big in our sex and, you know, again, in this heteronormative experience I had, it was, you know, sex is very quiet. And if I make any noise, I might offend the neighbors. And because it's two boys and what are they thinking? You know, instead, I'm making all the noise and I'm moving my body and slapping my body and just getting it all. All you know, out is, is a big part of it. So. Yeah, there's there's there is the stillness. That's certainly part of it, but it is all it is also about just raising the energy, getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and then letting it go and sort of flushing out some of some of our patterns, some of our, negative patterns that we are not even negative. I don't even want to say it's just the it's just the stuck patterns in our life, the cycles, and how do we move forward and out and beyond and, you know, to wherever, wherever it is we want to go, it's somewhere on our life. It sounds like we want to let go of.

Britt East [00:38:42] It sounds like erotic empowerment. And I'm curious about what that is and how we can get some more. Is that something you can buy on Amazon Prime? Like, can I have it delivered in 24 hours? Erotic empowerment?

Don Shine [00:38:55] Sure. You can package me up. I'll come to your front door. Hi. No. It's. Yeah, it's I wish I could, and I wish I could. You know, it's not easy to convince people to take the risk and to think, you know, how how can I, you know, how is this how is this related to me in my life? And, you know, no one could ever possibly understand me or can I? Or what I want or I don't even know what I want. So how do I how do I even know what an erotic empowerment can do? And people have an idea of what it is they think. You know, body electric is a big orgy and that we're, you know, all just sort of doing this crazy thing. And it's it's so much bigger than that. It's so much bigger than anything that I can even describe. And so it's, it's, you know, I often say at the beginning of the workshop, my goal is to earn your trust over the course of this time to just to be big, to go big and to really let go of what's what's ailing you. It's it's less about me and more about you just just being vulnerable and, and allowing yourself to to go in places you never dreamed.

Britt East [00:40:06] That's beautiful. You know, this is a leading question because you kind of alluded to it previously, but, you know, as in thinking about in our society, which is oriented towards queer loneliness and despair, why is it so important that we learn how, as queer people, to stoke our desires and claim our pleasures?

Don Shine [00:40:29] I think it's important for all of us to do that. I think it's important for all human beings to do this. It's but it's a particularly important for gay folk to, to be big to, you know, in some ways, I feel like we show the world how to live because all of us, it's not just queer folks who get stuck in our patterns or get stuck into the the way we should be or the way our lives are supposed. Host to be. And and rarely do we take the opportunity to know what is it that I really want in my life? What do I want to attract in my life? You asked the 20 year old version of myself that I, if I would be number one, taking workshops related to sex and intimacy and number two, much less teaching workshops related to sex and intimacy, I never, never would have dreamed that this was possible. And, so it's. Yeah, to me, it's it's the thing I've been I've been called to do and I and I see it and I hear it over and over again. The number of people who just who come to a workshop and they say, you know, I've been in years of therapy, I've been in therapy for over 30 years, 40 years, 50 years my whole life. And I have not been able to move things in my life the way I did in the past 48 hours. You know, it's so it's there is, you know, it's all connected. There's, you know, what we do in body electric is is wonderful, but it's it's it's not proprietary. It's not something that is that we own. That is hours and hours alone. We are pulling from lots of different traditions. And so there are lots of people who teach the same stuff. You might even say that in some ways, organized religion is sort of connected to this, that when we go to yoga, when we exercise, when we see a therapist, when we, you know, all of these things are interrelated and connected to just it. My, my, one of my teachers, Harry Farris, calls it like links in a chain. Everything is a link in a chain that will get us to this place of awareness for all of us. And to me, our erotic selves are intricately sort of woven into all of into each link in that chain. So whether we are on a path of, you know, you know, whatever our path is to enlightenment, whatever that looks like, it's all interwoven and interconnected and it's part of everything of who we are. So it's. Yeah. So when you talk about what, what is the word you used, erotic empowerment. It's that when you can harness that energy. It's what I often like to say is I, you know, I grew up in Kentucky. I grew up in a working class household. I didn't hear the word chakra until I was 41 years old. And I was like, what's that? And I was actually talking to my teacher teacher today, and he's like, do you remember how much resistance I had? Just, you know, was so like, what? What what are you talking about? Where's that? In my science books in Kentucky, wasn't there? So when, you know, I to. Where was I going with this? Hang on. I was losing my train of thought. What were we just talking about?

Britt East [00:43:38] Erotic empowerment and your resistance.

Don Shine [00:43:41] To robotic empowerment. Right. And so. Okay. This is where I was going with that. In my classes I talk about if you if if this if this idea of chakras is somehow like if you're resistant to this, if you're resistant to this whole idea behind it or resistance to somehow that there's this energetic connection in your in all of our bodies that were connected to each other, you can at least begin to recognize that there's a lot of energy in our erotic self. I'm pointing down because, you know, at least at some point in our lives, we begin to recognize there's some energy here. And sometimes it takes all of my attention one way, or it takes my attention this way. And sometimes I use it for, you know, okay, well, how many of us have have, have just jerked off to get rid of that energy or, or, you know, found someone to have sex with because I'm just so full of this energy. But what happens if I can actually harness that energy and apply it to all aspects of my life? It's incredibly empowering. And so, you know, one of the examples I always use is that day that I left you, you referenced this earlier the day I left the workshop in my car. I mentioned this earlier. My car started freaking out and again, it was metaphysical, like the computer went out, I my speedometer went out. It's never happened since. It only happened that one time. And I drove my car directly to the auto dealership and I didn't have an appointment. You had to have an appointment to get there, and I just drove it so confidently. I walked into that room and normally I'd be like, excuse me, could someone help me? I was I walked in and just said, hey, how's everybody doing? My car is not working. I need somebody to take care of it. Here are my keys. Have a great day. I don't even know what came into today. And those mechanics looked at me like, okay, well, sure, Mr. McGovern, we'll have your we'll we'll get your car. We'll take care of that. And I, you know, at the grocery store, like, hey, how are you doing? I hope you're having a good day. And, you know, it becomes very empowering to just. I'm not talking about, you know, harnessing this, you know, erotic energy and going out and doing, you know, sexy things of people. It's genuinely just there's this concept of a meta, you know, sending goodness out into the world, ascending goodness and being in a space of just sharing this part of who I am with you at strangers with with you, Brett, with anyone I encounter in my life and and try to just pass it on. You know.

Britt East [00:46:21] It sounds like you're talking about vitality and that's, you know, my greatest wish for queer people in particular everywhere is to take up more space and live with more vitality. And and that's the image I kept in my mind when you were speaking. And I can't help but wonder what you would say to that 20 year old kid. Knowing what you know now. I'm not your personal vitality.

Don Shine [00:46:47] I don't know what I would have said that would have gotten through, you know what I mean? Because there were lots of people trying, including my ex-husband, who would just, you know, like, do you not see how wonderful you are? Can you not see this person? But I but, you know, that's I think that's part of the point, Brett, is there was so much shame in terms of that pervert that was in there. You know, it's like, I'm gay. You know, there's already that, you know, and in my Catholic life, we recall, you know, my, my ex and I, we were we were both Catholic. We went to church every Sunday and we'd hear these messages that were just constantly, you know, we're we're somehow lower than the rest of the planet. And of course, that's bullshit. And in some ways, it's, you know, I yeah, I don't know what I would have said that would have gotten through other than just keep saying, you're beautiful.

Britt East [00:47:42] Okay, that's pretty good.

Don Shine [00:47:43] You can see it.

Britt East [00:47:44] That's pretty good. Yeah. Pretty good. What do you.

Don Shine [00:47:47] One of the things.

Britt East [00:47:49] Sorry. Go ahead, Nino, go ahead.

Don Shine [00:47:52] Well, I was going to. This is revealing a little bit, but one of the I was talking about sending meta. Right. One of my favorite practices is going to a bath house and being nice to people.

Britt East [00:48:08] Oh, my God, that is revolutionary. That is that is awesome. Whoa.

Don Shine [00:48:15] Then you go in a bathhouse and people are like, you know, nobody wants to engage. They don't want to talk. They're sort of in the shadows. And I'm like, hey, how you doing? You look great. You look wonderful. Yeah. You're so hot. And, you know, like, just being open and open dialog in the sauna. Some people get annoyed. Some people like the sort of quiet thing, but I'm like the friendly, happy guy, and it's, it's. I have an article my friend Steve Schwartzberg gave me. It's called sending meta in a dirty gay bar. Oh. That's awesome. It just, you know, it. Just sending it out, even just telepathically to the world, like, may you be well. Oh, I love it.

Britt East [00:48:55] It's so subversive.

Don Shine [00:48:57] And it just makes yourself feel good.

Britt East [00:48:59] Well, but it also appeals to the brat in me. It's so subversive and point out and flips everything on its head. I'm getting a vision of Marmaduke going to the bath house for those who remember that. I'm dating myself. That old comics. But, that is awesome.

Don Shine [00:49:16] Oh, this is a perfect visual.

Britt East [00:49:18] I'm going to place it right there.

Don Shine [00:49:19] All in on in there. Hey, everybody. I'm here.

Britt East [00:49:23] What do you what do in your life do you consider to be sacrosanct?

Don Shine [00:49:27] What do I consider? So what do I consider sacred in my life? Sure. Yeah. You know, there's a saying that and I can't remember the amp, you know, if any of my friends are body like they're they're going to be annoyed because I can't remember the hoo hoo. This quote is attributed to. But it is. It's. And I'm going to get the quote wrong, but it's we. How do you know something is sacred? You treat it as sacred and therefore it is. And so how do I say that? It's you know, I in some ways I see everything in my life as sacred. I see. You know, I'm, I just, my parents had this camper that was that I'm in right now, that is, that sat in their driveway for a really long time, and they weren't using it. So I borrowing it for the summer and living in it. And to me, this is my sanctuary. This is my home. And I'm treating it as such. And therefore it's sacred. It's it's it's my it's my retreats. It's where I'm. I'm renewed. It's it's my temple. It's it's where I come to, you know, to recharge. Where I come to celebrate who I am and to be myself. And so. Yeah, I, I see my body a secret. I see my sex as sacred. I see my work as sacred. I see other people and the people in my life who I love as sacred and, and try to treat most things in my life as sacred. Even the dirty sex. Dirty sex that I have in a bathhouse that's sacred to some people may have a hard time making that connection, but it's, it's, I, I feel it, I feel it in my bones.

Britt East [00:51:21] That's so beautiful. What gives you hope?

Don Shine [00:51:35] You know, you know, a lot of what I, the work that I do gives me hope. A lot of, you know, when I see someone's face, you know, transform. And, when I see them suddenly get it and see the light and, you know, whatever that light is for them. And by the way, my lights different then your light. But when I see it, it's. That gives me hope. And, but even just beyond the work that I do. You know, my, I hang out with my nieces and nephews for their birthday. Their uncle takes them out for one day of the year. And I was with my nephew the other day, and he was, he I just I see a version of him able to he's, you know, he's only eight. So he's your at the zoo. We're just walking around and he's just being himself. He's like, there's no obstacles, there's nothing in front of him. There's. And I and I feel like to a certain extent, it's because of the time we're in, because of the experience, his parents and what they're allowing him to be and how they're allowing him to live there. There's there is this authenticity that's coming out that I, I didn't have when I was that age. And so, you know, that gives me hope. And, I try to, you know, there's there's a lot to be worried about. There's a lot to be afraid of in our planet right now. There's a lot to, to mourn in our planet right now. There's a lot of bad things happening. But I try to find the hope in those little moments and know that, you know. I keep hoping that this generation will, you know, because they're able to be themselves, because they're able to step in to the most authentic version of who they are. They can. I don't know. Help save this planet, I guess. Yeah.

Britt East [00:53:34] Yeah. It seems like such a tall order to hold the despair of life and to sit with home and to do the laundry. It's like, oh my gosh. Something's got to give. How do we get through the day? You know.

Don Shine [00:53:53] Yeah. Yeah. Well. Again. Bear with me as I get a little woowoo. But, you know, taking it away from my conversations about my nephew, but more about the self-pleasure part of who we are. Did you know there's, my teachers have have said this for years. And it's it's well, there's this there's this, there's this phrase, that, the Lakota that is often attributed to the Lakota tribes of, of Southwest America. And it's literally us, and we're all connected, and all of us are connected energetically. We're connected to all living and non-living things. And scientifically, you can prove that we are all connected in some way that our atoms, you know, molecularly we are all connected. And when we sins matter, when we send pleasure, or when we are in pleasure with ourselves, and when we're in pleasure with the planet, we're sending healing to the planet. So, you know, when you go home and you practice in self-pleasure, you're bringing healing to yourself and you're bringing healing to the planet. Send it out. Send out that matter to other people. And it's you're sending goodness to the world because it is, you know, it's it's overwhelming. It's overwhelming how difficult things are. And where do you even begin? By, sending love to yourself. Sending love to each other. Even in a bath house? Especially in bath. Do it. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. The sun. It's been such a pleasure for a gay campground where I.

Britt East [00:55:26] Yeah, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you today. It's been so uplifting and joyful. I'm just so grateful for you taking the time out of your busy schedule to come join us and educate and inspire us. We're going to load up the show notes with, ways to contact on. We can learn more about his work, has workshops, he's got a great website where he lists all of his upcoming events so you can check them out, someplace that's near to you or if something's online and, donshine.net is his website URL, but we'll put that in the show notes so you don't have to scribble that down. Don, thanks again, I really appreciate it was wonderful to meet you. Thank you so much.

Don Shine [00:56:04] Thank you, brother. This has been a joy.

Britt East [00:56:06] Oh, good good, good. Well, dear listeners, you have done it. You have made it through yet another episode of Not Going Quietly. I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of me. We did it together. In fact, this show would not exist without without your support. And I really, really appreciate that. So until next time, thank you so much and bye bye. You've been listening to Not going quietly with your host, Brit East. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. As we explore ways to help everyone leap into life with a greater sense of clarity, passion, purpose, and joy. Check out our show notes for links, additional information, and episodes located on your favorite podcast platform.